Advertisement
Help Keep Boards Alive. Support us by going ad free today. See here: https://subscriptions.boards.ie/.
https://www.boards.ie/group/1878-subscribers-forum

Private Group for paid up members of Boards.ie. Join the club.
Hi all, please see this major site announcement: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058427594/boards-ie-2026

Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

1149514961498150015011818

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 727 ✭✭✭darkened_scrum


    Conan has 50 caps now. He's played his first 6N game back in 2017 or 2018 and has been pretty much ever present in the squad since, though he's picked up a good few injuries over the years. He's been to two world cups.

    As far as I can tell Coombes has 2 Ireland caps and hasn't played for Ireland since summer of 2021, which was a Lions tour summer (incidentally he'll probably get capped again this summer, another Lions tour summer).

    Not really sure there's any comparison there when it comes to international rugby.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 727 ✭✭✭darkened_scrum


    Something I've been ruminating on all week, after 4 good performances from the provinces last weekend, is what the heck happened to Ireland as the 6N went on? There's absolutely no way that team was playing to its ability, players looked a bit like they didn't want to be there by the final whistle against Italy, so what went wrong? The Leinster players looked rejuvenated, for Munster you had Beirne, Nash and Crowley playing way better than anything we saw in the 6N, Ulster were slightly outmatched but absolutely went out on their shields with a lot of good individual performances.

    (I didn't see the Connacht game, sorry Connacht, but good result at least).

    Did we totally underestimate the impact of Farrell not being there? Did the players carry their provincial form into camp but that faded as the tournament continued? It's worrying either way.

    Post edited by darkened_scrum on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,061 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    Substandard coaching played a big part imo. Goodman and POC are average at best. Our structures were ok, but our execution was ass. We had a lot of possession in the red zone that we didn't convert into points. Our defense was markedly worse.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,090 ✭✭✭irelandrover


    Ireland were poor in November as well when Farrell was there.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 727 ✭✭✭darkened_scrum


    I'd argue nowhere near as poor as the last 3 games of the 6N.

    Nobody hammered us, and both Aus and Arg are much better teams than Italy and Wales.



  • Advertisement
  • Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 36,388 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    Ireland were playing significantly better opponents than any of the provinces have been.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 727 ✭✭✭darkened_scrum


    Wales are absolutely rubbish. Italy aren't rubbish but they wouldn't win the URC or the European Cup.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,583 ✭✭✭ersatz


    Yeah, tend to agree with this with the footnote that Ireland tend not to hand out heavy beatings regardless of the opposition, but Wales and Italy were schooled by strong teams in the 6N while Ireland squeezed by them. And giving England two late scores in the 6N was very expensive and basically unforgivable. On current trajectory I'm expecting NZ to absolutely demolish us in Nov. All that said, there's been a lot of churn in the provinces w coaching changes and different styles of play being introduced so the overall consistency that we had between provinces and the Irish team has been quite disrupted this season, with the absence of Farrell adding too that. Our playing pool is very strong and the Irish team is still one of the best around on their day/ It's just a pity the coaching ticket is not as gold plated as it's been, I feel like Felix and Flan were two that got away.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 931 ✭✭✭johnh6767


    i think you are absolutely correct. It has been on my mind. I can’t help feeling the mismanagement of Crowley / Sam was at the heart of deflating the wider squad . There was too much unnecessary noise in the background and too much pressure passed to Sam which our adversaries were able to capitalise on. Where that series of decisions came from I don’t know but Andy can’t be blameless given his influence from afar.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 499 ✭✭thamus doku


    it was handled very badly alright. They should have started with Crowley and over the championship if prendergast had surpassed Crowley than fair enough.
    They should have let it happen naturally, instead they tried to force it and they made a complete balls of it.
    They even had ex players and the media saying prendergast has overtaken Crowley , trying to sell it.

    Do not be surprised if prendergast goes to the lions, farrell has the arrogance to double down on his error.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,061 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    What a load of shite



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 42,751 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    Agree they should have started with Crowley and let Sam impress with his minutes off the bench. There would have been no controversy if he won his way into the team from the bench. Dropping a player who was part of a six nations winning team the previous season and bringing in a young man with very questionable defensive ability was never going to sit well with a lot of people.



  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 11,311 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatInABox


    Ah, I don't think the SP/Crowley situation played any part at all really, have a look back at those games, the 10 didn't play much part in what was going wrong. The same problems that Ireland had in the first four games with SP were also evident in the game with Crowley.

    I also don't think that the Irish team are that affected by the squad choices, they're professions through and through, and it was relatively easy to justify picking SP over Crowley, as Crowley was in bad to average form coming into the tournament. No player is going to be cut up over a player being dropped for form.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 931 ✭✭✭johnh6767


    Andy Farrell has many traits, arrogance is not one of them, quite the opposite which is why he can get teams to rally around him



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 818 ✭✭✭MangleBadger


    I hate this line that comes up about Crowley.

    "part of a 6 nations winning team"

    So were a lot of other players. That doesn't mean they cannot be rotated out. It is not like he dragged Ireland kicking and screaming to the title.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,150 ✭✭✭✭salmocab


    A 6 nations team that won the same amount of matches as this year.
    also Prendergast seemed to take the jersey in autumn so the crying in those couple of posts about it happening in the 6N is at best nonsense.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,772 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    A line usually trotted out by the same people who normally complain about conservatism and not giving chances to any new players.

    Farrell and Ireland are in a no-win situation with a small minority of people. It is what is and they're not for turning.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 727 ✭✭✭darkened_scrum


    Given my post started this discussion, can I just point out that the people jumping straight to "Whhhhaaaa if they'd only picked my favourite player!!!", there is no possible way you could miss the point by a greater margin.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,834 ✭✭✭sprucemoose


    the form thing isnt really true though. he was fantastic away to northampton right before the 6Ns and away to ulster before christmas, a relatively poor game away to castres in europe is colouring people's perception a bit (although the team in general was well below standard that day). even going back to the AIs, he didnt do anything too special against NZ but again the team in general was well below par for the majority of the match, but he was played very well against Argentina and when he come on against Aus.

    so, taking the below standard goalkicking out of the equation, the 'bad to average' form isnt exactly true either



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 42,751 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    Who else was rotated out?

    Crowley did a very good job. Do you disagree with that?

    And just in case you think I'm from Munster, I'm not. I'm a Connacht fan and I go support other provinces in tournaments where it doesn't hurt Connacht. I have no bias towards Munster or Leinster.

    I'm always praising Leinster for all the great work thru do in their academy and I often say that players on the fringe of the Ireland team, like Max Deegan, should be part of the 23.

    And I simply said that putting Prendergast on the bench to start his career would have made the transition a lot more acceptable for most people, who are not Leinster fans.

    Who was the last out-half to walk straight in as starter for Ireland?



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,349 ✭✭✭✭Foxtrol


    You simply cannot take a goal kickers stats from the tee out when assessing their performance. I dont believe you'd be trying to exclude his goalkicking if he was going 100% every week.

    How would you describe Crowley's form from the start of the season up until the start of the 6 nations including goal kicking?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,349 ✭✭✭✭Foxtrol


    SP didnt walk straight in - he was in extended squads and toured with Ireland and didnt get a minute of gametime. He then benched and then took the jersey.

    It was a truncated timeline but he went through the usual steps, probably expedited by Crowley not being in great form for either his province or country.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,772 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    Prendergast did start his test career on the bench, even that was after touring SA and getting no game time.

    He went through the exact same process as everyone else. This toxic bollicks about media hype, preferential treatment and all that is just lads being salty.

    Worth remembering that Jack Crowley got a much faster elevation to the national team than Prendergast. Funny how that gets forgotten so much.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 33,009 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    He absolutely was not fantastic against Ulster before Christmas. He was a complete mixed bag, as he had been all season to that point.

    Even against Argentina, he was very good and then blotted his copybook with a very rough 10 min before halftime. I don't think Prendergast would have gotten the chances he did if Crowley had played as well as he did last season.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 42,751 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    I don't know why you are talking me about the media stuff and preferential treatment stuff.

    As I said he should have started the six nations on the bench and after a game or two been brought in as starter and none of the stuff you mention would have happened.

    That's common sense.

    Whose goalkicking stats are you referring to?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,075 ✭✭✭accensi0n


    Crowley his last game and Prendergast now.. if they improve just 5% along with the additional 10-20 caps before WC.. pretty bloody great place to be for Ireland.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,128 ✭✭✭For Petes Sake


    Mof Edit

    Warning issued.

    Post edited by ShamoBuc on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 42,751 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    He started straight away in the Six Nations. None of the other stuff matters.

    Why are you telling me about all the stuff that went on? As I said, if he started on the bench in the six nations and then got in after a couple of games there wouldn't have been any of that stuff going on.

    It would have been common sense.

    Now we are in a quandary, he had a 70% goal kicking success rate and horrendous defense.

    Do we now go look for another out-half?

    Neither him nor Crowley have covered themselves in glory this year.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 499 ✭✭thamus doku


    gatland was pretty good at that too. but gatland was considered a very arrogant manager.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 727 ✭✭✭darkened_scrum


    How good was Prendergast this evening? Exceptional performance really. Over to the Irish coaches to get those sorts of performances from him in green.



Advertisement
Advertisement