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Immigration and Ireland - MEGATHREAD *Read OP for mod warnings before posting*

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 616 ✭✭✭RandRuns


     people that are not accepted, their claims are rejected, do not meet the criteria for claiming asylum.

    Yes, obviously.

    Your statement that "Money has nothing to do with seeking asylum" is patently untrue. If it was true, nobody, or almost nobody, would be rejected.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,350 ✭✭✭✭suvigirl


    Germany has ordered a temporary halt to a UN refugee resettlement program it

    has said that the program was stopped "during the coalition negotiations"

    We assume that it will continue," as soon as there is a new interior minister, he said.

    https://www.dw.com/en/germany-orders-halt-on-un-refugee-resettlement-program/a-72171825

    Germany has suspended admission of refugees via a U.N. resettlement programme,

    https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/germany-temporarily-halts-resettlement-un-refugees-dpa-reports-2025-04-08/

    Not as the poster described



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,350 ✭✭✭✭suvigirl


    I don't understand, money either having it or not having it, has nothing to do with claiming asylum



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 616 ✭✭✭RandRuns


    Please explain why you believe this?

    The fact is that around 60% of asylum claims are rejected (this reached over 80% earlier this year). This means that most people are applying for reasons other than a requirement for asylum. The only other reason I can think of, is that they wish to make a better life for themselves, as they see the opportunity to make/get more money in Ireland.

    What do you think the 60-80%+ of people claiming asylum who aren't entitled to it are coming here for? The weather? A love of traditional Irish music? The views? The only logical explanation is money. Therefore, your statement is incorrect.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,350 ✭✭✭✭suvigirl


    Maybe I'm not making myself clear or I'm explaining this wrong somehow. Basically there are officially reasons to claim asylum. As outlined above.

    Those that do not meet the criteria, are rejected. Money doesn't come into the reason for claiming asylum or failing to meet the criteria.

    If there are people chancing their arm (which obv there are) then their reasons for coming here don't matter. Their claim for asylum will not be accepted.

    Does that make more sense?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 616 ✭✭✭RandRuns


    You said: Money has nothing to do with seeking asylum"

    This simply is not true. Given the numbers of rejections, people are obviously claiming asylum for financial reasons.

    In this post you now say Money doesn't come into the reason for claiming asylum

    Again, this is a statement with no basis in fact. Of course money "comes into the reason" for many claiming asylum - this is clear from the rejection numbers.

     The fact that you go on to say If there are people chancing their arm (which obv there are)is confusing - you seem to be agreeing with the very point you are trying to dispute.

    Whether someone is rejected or not has nothing to do with the fact that they applied because of financial reasons (i.e. money) in the first place.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,257 ✭✭✭RoyalCelt


    BERLIN, April 9 (Reuters) - Germany's future government of conservatives and centre-left Social Democrats on Wednesday agreed on measures aimed at curbing illegal migration, including rejecting asylum seekers at borders, enabling deportations to Syria and suspending family reunions.

    The sands of change continue to move slowly across Europe.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,350 ✭✭✭✭suvigirl


    I'm talking about official reasons to claim asylum. Money does not come into it. It doesn't matter what rejected people's reasons for claiming asylum are, the official reasons to claim do not include money.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 84 ✭✭_Quilombero_


    Agreed.

    The tent situation was grim and thankfully that's mostly done with but in any case conditions do not excuse frequent and serious acts of violence like knife attacks and arson.

    It's quite clear that many are just dangerous individuals and it's nasty to suggest that, because we cannot give them a private apartment, that we're be to blame when they kill someone.

    One incident where a fella wanted to stab a chef who wouldn't give him an extra meal. That incident has nothing to do with quality of facilities. It's a professional catering service more than likely tailored to the religious beliefs of that lunatic. On top of that there are laundry facilities, a plethora of NGOs help them with all sorts of things, HSE staff, transport, recreation facilities, not to mention the opportunity to work and rent like anyone else.

    The dangers being inflicted upon communities are there in black and white for all to see, straight from the horses mouth. It cannot be deemed "disinformation" or twisted and turned to suit the agenda of some open borders loon.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,449 ✭✭✭McBain11


    Can I ask why you've never expanded on this untrue 'fact' yesterday when you claimed the rates of unemployment in Germany between immigrants and Germans were 50/50. No difference at all. Nothing to see here.

    After claiming the unemployment rate was 50/50 immigrants/Germans (an astonishing mistake, did you actually think the population of Germany is 50 percent immigrants), you just brushed it off and mentioned sunshine and ice creams or something.

    Do you not think it was worthy of a proper discussion that in Germany the unemployment rate is 4.5/1 immigrants/Germans? After so much talk of untrue 'facts', surely there would be a big conversation on those German numbers which kills a lot of myths a lot of folk on here are perpetuating.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,350 ✭✭✭✭suvigirl


    I made a mistake and acknowledged it. I also said that perhaps educating them would be a good idea. Leaving people without a chance to become assets to the society they live in is clearly not a good idea. Giving people opportunities to better themselves can only be good, for those people and for society.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 616 ✭✭✭RandRuns


    That's obviously a completely different claim to the one you made originally:

    Money has nothing to do with seeking asylum. Apart from getting out of their own country.

    You didn't mention or allude to "official reasons" in that post, nor were you quoting any other post to give it context.
    Perhaps the best thing would be to admit that statement is untrue, or that you were mistaken.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,350 ✭✭✭✭suvigirl


    Obviously when talking about claiming asylum I am talking about the reasons for claiming asylum as I outlined in my earlier post.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,449 ✭✭✭McBain11


    What you actually did yesterday was post about untrue 'facts' about half a dozen times trying to discredit other posters. Then you preceded to outright lie about the most basic of mathematical statistics regarding German unemployment numbers, then mentioned sunshine and ice cream as if there was nothing more to discuss regarding those numbers and your take on them.

    A huge amount of people in this thread are posting in good faith. Certain other posters, not so much.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 616 ✭✭✭RandRuns


    That's not obvious at all I'm afraid. You quoted no post, or mentioned no context. I'm a latecomer to this thread, and I do not mean to pick on you in any way, but you have made two statements in the past couple of pages that are completely untrue. In fairness you admitted to one, but this one is no less obvious.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,763 ✭✭✭Patrick2010


    The vast majority of asylum seekers here are economic migrants looking for a better life, there’s no point in pretending otherwise. If someone was fleeing persecution in the likes of Somalia they have a huge continent in Africa to find safety in but choose an island on the far side of Europe. If posters here believe in open borders and we have a responsibility to house anyone who arrives here then just admit it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,350 ✭✭✭✭suvigirl




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,350 ✭✭✭✭suvigirl


    I haven't made untrue posts, what are you talking about. The reasons for claiming asylum are clear.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,449 ✭✭✭McBain11


    Still no thoughts on the true 'fact' of German unemployment numbers running at 4.5/1 immigrants/Germans? No notion of expanding the conversation on those stats?

    Just a throwaway remark about education for all, is that as deep as your commentary on this subject goes?

    Nothing to see here folks.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,350 ✭✭✭✭suvigirl


    Is there something wrong with what I said? Leaving people with no opportunity to educate or better themselves, is never a good option.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 616 ✭✭✭RandRuns


    This will be my last response to you on this, as I'm afraid I have no interest in circular arguments.

    You claimed Germans and immigrants in Germany had the same unemployment rate, despite the facts clearly showing this wasn't true. As I said, in fairness, you admitted this once I corrected you.

    You then stated that "money has nothing to do with claiming asylum" which, again, is contrary to the facts as pointed out. Unfortunately this time you refuse to acknowledge that you are wrong, and have claimed you meant something else, or had some other context, but you insist you are still correct despite it being obvious your statement is untrue.

    Facts are important. There is enough emotion around this subject without trying to gild the lily on either side.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,449 ✭✭✭McBain11


    Have you a link to a study or any proof at all that all of those immigrants showing up in German unemployment figures were never offered any opportunity at better education or upskilling?

    You must have really solid proof, as you've made a statement there as though it is factual that all of those immigrants were left with ' no opportunity to educate or better themselves'.

    Can you post that proof on this thread please? Thanks.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,350 ✭✭✭✭suvigirl


    owing to a well-founded fear of being persecuted for reasons of race, religion, nationality, political opinion or membership of a particular social group, is outside his or her country of nationality and is unable or, owing to such fear, is unwilling to avail himself or herself of the protection of that country, or a stateless person, who, being outside of the country of former habitual residence for the same reasons as mentioned above, is unable or, owing to such fear, unwilling to return to it;

    https://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2015/act/66/enacted/en/print#sec2

    you are afraid to return to your country of origin/country of previous residence because you are in danger of suffering serious harm you can apply for protection in Ireland.

    https://help.unhcr.org/ireland/applying-for-asylum/

    An asylum seeker is a person who has left their country and is seeking protection from persecution and serious human rights violations in another country, but who hasn’t yet been legally recognized as a refugee and is waiting to receive a decision on their asylum claim. Seeking asylum is a human right. This means everyone should be allowed to enter another country to seek asylum.

    https://www.amnesty.org/en/what-we-do/refugees-asylum-seekers-and-migrants/

    You can apply for international protection in Ireland if you have come to Ireland to escape persecution in your own country.

    You can also apply for international protection if you cannot return to your country because you have a well-founded fear for your safety.

    https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/moving-country/asylum-seekers-and-refugees/the-asylum-process-in-ireland/applying-for-refugee-status-in-ireland/

    Those are the reasons for claiming asylum. Those are facts. And law.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,350 ✭✭✭✭suvigirl




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 616 ✭✭✭RandRuns


    Like I said, I've no interest in circular arguments.

    A whole mess of information and links that have nothing whatsoever to do with the untrue statement you made are the epitome of a circular argument, so I will leave you to it. Hopefully the others involved in this discussion will benefit from seeing this exchange, and will be able to weigh your future posts accordingly.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,350 ✭✭✭✭suvigirl


    Yes that I deal in facts. I cannot make other people understand them



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,449 ✭✭✭McBain11


    This doesn't prove a single thing.

    I asked the most basic of questions - have you proof that all of those immigrants in the Germany unemployment statistics were never offered an opportunity to better education or to upskill?

    It's a very simple question that you have not replied to. You are answering a different question that was never asked. It is just another case in point of deflection and telling of untrue 'facts' on this thread by certain people.

    You said that 'people were being left with no opportunity to educate or better themselves' - where is the proof of this? Total numbers/percentage of immigrants not in education or educational programmes does not prove whatsoever that people were not offered these opportunities.

    So, have you any proof whatsoever of your claims?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,179 ✭✭✭✭Seathrun66


    The other poster could not be clearer. You cannot claim asylum for financial reasons. No case would proceed. The five grounds (Persecution owing to race, religion, nationality, social group, political opinion) for such are very clear under the International Protection Act of 2015 and those not fulfilling them are rejected and deported.

    Do you oppose the deportation of anyone undeserving of asylum status? The failure rates are pretty high signifying that the system is working so you must surely approve of that?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 616 ✭✭✭RandRuns


    I did not say you could claim asylum for financial reasons - you are, presumably, alluding to her post where she changed her statement completely in an effort to avoid addressing the earlier untrue statement:

    Money has nothing to do with seeking asylum. Apart from getting out of their own country.

    This statement, by any measure, is not true. Lots of people - the majority, according to the rejection rates in Ireland, seek asylum for financial reasons.

    My opposing deportation or not, which I have made no comment on, has nothing to do with the untruth of the above statement.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,179 ✭✭✭✭Seathrun66


    Nah. The reactionary morons have got nowhere after eight decades of trying. Slaughtered here in our last General Election. Name a far-right government on this continent.



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