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Reopening bricked up rear Garden entrance

  • 10-04-2025 09:11AM
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,433 ✭✭✭


    the rear wall of my back garden wall has a outline of what looks to be an opening for a gate that at some point appears to have been bricked up ( easily identified as there is an arch and different bricks used)

    the question is can i just remove the bricks and place a gate without any planning or contacting the council? it opens into a cul de sac

    Post edited by dunworth1 on


Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,198 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    Class 5 Exempt Development.

    The construction, erection or alteration, within or bounding the curtilage of a house, of a gate, gateway, railing or wooden fence or a wall of brick, stone, blocks with decorative finish, other concrete blocks or mass concrete.

    1. The height of any such structure shall not exceed 2 metres…



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 329 ✭✭kevgaa


    just be careful

    While Class 5 does afford exemptions in certain circumstances,  however

     

    Restrictions on exemptions – Article 9 of the Planning and Development Regulations 2001, as amended, states:-

    1.            Development to which article 6 relates shall not be exempted development for the purpose of this Act – (a) if the carrying out of such development would –

     

    (ii)           consist of or comprise the formation, laying out or material widening of a means of access to a public road the surfaced carriageway of which exceeds 4 metres in width,

     

    The Planning and Development Act uses the following definition of a road;

    ‘‘road’ includes (a) any street, lane, footpath, square, court, alley or passage,(b) any bridge, viaduct, underpass, subway, tunnel, overpass, overbridge, flyover,   carriageway (whether single or multiple), pavement or footway……

     



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,433 ✭✭✭dunworth1


    Thank you.

    there is nothing directly behind the wall so i don't think i would have any issue going by the above.

    the reason is to be able to easily move items in and out of the garden rather than through the house itself.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,433 ✭✭✭dunworth1


    i dont think this would be an issue as there is no path at the other side of the wall only a small green patch maybe 1m in length. and its only single gate access i would be looking to open



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 28,401 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    There must be something beyond the wall — a field, a yard, a lane, something. If you are thinking of using the gate to move things in and out of the garden, whatever lies beyond it must at least be land to which you have, or think you have, a right of access and over which you have a right of passage. Plus, if it's not a road of any kind, then it must itself be accessible from a public road. (Otherwise it's no use to you.)

    Is it, by any chance, a lane? And, if so, how wide is the lane?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,433 ✭✭✭dunworth1


    well there is a road yes but it is a Cul de Sac



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 28,401 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    Is the carriageway more than 4 metres wide?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,804 ✭✭✭JVince


    Just do it and don't be fretting over what looks to be a very minor bit of work. The very worst that can happen is you are told to put the bricks back in. If anything, this could also be seen as a safety measure - allowing secondary access / exit in an emergency.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 45,533 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    I wouldn't make the assumption that it might be a minor task! We don't know if the road is a private lane where the OP has no legal right of access (as is the case with many laneways around the likes of Clontarf). I would make the point that the access point was sealed up for a reason.

    @dunworth1 do you know who owns the lane (local authority or private owner)?

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,589 ✭✭✭standardg60


    That reads as making a material change to the ground outside the boundary to provide means of access which the OP is not proposing to do. As long as the ground outside is not privately owned i wouldn't see any issue, Wellington Lane in Templeogue for reference has many gates and doors in the boundary wall similar to what the OP describes. Ie. a strip of grass and then a public road.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,198 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    worth mentioning, but not relevant in this case. OP is proposing a pedestrian gate, not road access.

    It’s true he needs access/usage rights to the property behind in order to bring something that way. But strictly speaking that applies to use separately, and not he can construct it under planning law.

    only relevant if he is proposing a driveway or similar road access imo



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 28,401 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    . . . only relevant if he is proposing a driveway or similar road access imo

    Is it? The restriction quoted by kevgaa in post 3 only refers to . . .

    a means of access to a public road the surfaced carriageway of which exceeds 4 metres in width

    It doesn't seem to be confined to a means of vehicular access.

    Post edited by Peregrinus on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,198 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    Access to the "road" means vehicular access. The purpose of the de-exemption is traffic safety.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 28,401 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    Traffic safety can't be imperilled by pedestrians?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,198 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    Of course they can. Animals, falling trees, weather can also affect traffic.

    But none if that changes the fact that planning law above relates to vechicle access and safety.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 28,401 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    It doesn't say so.

    The only indirect reference to vehicles is in the fact that the limitation on the exemption depend on the width of the carriageway — i.e. it depends on whether the public road to which access is opened is one along which vehicle can be expected to pass.

    But it's big leap from that to conclude that the limitation on the exemption only concerns itself with gates that provide vehicular access to the public road. If that was the policy, it would have been trivially easy to say so, but it doesn't say so. Plus, there is no implication in the text that that is the policy. We can infer that the concern is an entrance through which may enter things that present a danger in the context of a road used by vehicles. We can't infer that those things are nevertheless ignored unless they themselves happen to be vehicles.

    Remember, in this context we are talking about a entrance that opens into what might be a lane running behind the back gardens of private houses. The lane may well have a carriageway; it doesn't necessarily have a separate footway, so the same space may be shared by cars, bikes and pedestrians. It's obvious that the entry of bikes or pedestrians into such a lane could give rise to precisely the danger that the limition is concerned with.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,198 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    It says access to the road. Which, in a planning context, means access to the carriageway.
    It seem like you were not aware of Article 9 until it mentioned above, and while I appreciate your legal knowledge generally. Is it fair to say planning law is not an area you are specifically familiar with?

    But it's big leap from that to conclude that the limitation on the exemption only concerns itself with gates that provide vehicular access to the public road. If that was the policy, it would have been trivially easy to say so, but it doesn't say so. Plus, there is no implication in the text that that is the policy. We can infer that the concern is an entrance through which may enter things that present a danger in the context of a road used by vehicles. We can't infer that those things are nevertheless ignored unless they themselves happen to be vehicles.

    It may have be easy so, but planning law is full or articles and clauses that are not perfectly clear. In particular exempted development. A large part of the application of law is policy - in this case the policy makes do not have the power to re-word laws to be precise.

    For the sake of clarity, I'm not inferring, concluding or making a leap based on the text of article 9. I speaking from professional knowledge and experience.

    Remember, in this context we are talking about a entrance that opens into what might be a lane running behind the back gardens of private houses. The lane may well have a carriageway; it doesn't necessarily have a separate footway, so the same space may be shared by cars, bikes and pedestrians. It's obvious that the entry of bikes or pedestrians into such a lane could give rise to precisely the danger that the limitation is concerned with.

    A lane behind a house probably would be a width of less than 4m. So it wouldn't apply in any case. Carriageways over 4m (two lane roads) would typically have a footway.

    If the entrance opened directly on to a carriageway over 4m. If then it would not be exempt. But that is obviously access to the carriageway.

    Post edited by Mellor on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 958 ✭✭✭mikewest


    Everyone seems to be talking about a new opening but this is reinstating a previously existing gateway which may well be on existing site plans or original planning permission? It's possible that it's not meant to be bricked up according to the planning permission originally granted.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,198 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    It may have been granted previously. But bricking it up was exempt development, which supersedes the grant.
    At this stage whether it exist or not makes no difference. It the same as opening up an entirely new opening



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 329 ✭✭kevgaa


    Hi Folks,

    Take it from somebody with first hand experience of this a pedestrian gate out on a public carriageway wider than 4m requires planning as it is not deemed exempt under article 9.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,198 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    Was the entrance directly on to the carriageway itself. Or on to the footway of a road with a "public carriageway wider than 4m"

    Egressing directly on to the carriageway (over 4m) is not exempt. It impacts traffic and is obviously access to the carriageway. You could drive a motorcycle out - which has obvious dangers.
    A pedestrian entry, that is one egressing to a footpath or pedestrian area, is exempt.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 329 ✭✭kevgaa


    pedestrian entrance onto a footpath at the end of a street.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,198 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    You got a raw deal then. Councils do make mistakes, which is why an appeal body exists. But ABP have determined that article 9 is not intended for those situations and does cover apply to pedestrian entrances.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 329 ✭✭kevgaa


    Thanks Mellor, Is there any written document outling that Article 9 does not apply to a pedestrian entrance that I can pass onto our local enforcement team..



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,198 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    There should be something. I'll have a dig...

    Here you go. This was a doorway in wall that was a boundary wall stepping directly on to a footpath. The board overruled the council and their own inspector. They outline a really clear logic that should apply to your case.

    An Bord Pleanala Cade Ref: RL09.RL2734 (Kildare County Council)
    The Board direction at the bottom of that page is the best reference. Direct Link

    The Board also noted that Article 9(1)(a)(ii) states, inter alia, that development to which Article 6 relates shall not be exempted development for the purposes of the Act if the carrying out of such development would consist of or comprise the formation, laying out or material widening of a means of access to a public road the surfaced carriageway of which exceeds 4 metres in width.

    The Board did not agree with the interpretation of the Planning Authority and of the Inspector in relation to the applicability of this restriction in the case of a pedestrian access onto a footpath, which would otherwise be exempted development under the provisions of Class 5 of Part 1 of Schedule 2 to the Regulations.

    The Board concluded that the restriction under Article 9(1)(a)(ii), placed on the formation of an access onto a public road more than 4m wide is concerned essentially with the question of traffic safety. The interpretation favoured by the planning authority and by the Inspector would remove the exemption provided for a pedestrian gateway under Class 5 of Part 1 of Schedule 2 to the Regulations in many cases where the gate opens onto a public footpath, with no implications for traffic safety. The Board considered that this is not the intended objective of the regulations.

    Notwithstanding the definition of “public road” given in the Roads Act, 1993, as applied per Section 2(1) of the Planning and Development Act, 2000, the Board considered that, applying a purposive interpretation of the Regulations, the word “access” as applied at the said Article 9(1)(a)(ii) refers to an access suitable for a vehicle and not to a pedestrian access onto a footpath.

    ____________________________________________________________

    AND WHEREAS

    An Bord Pleanála has concluded that –

    (a) the formation of a pedestrian doorway is development which comes within the scope of the exempted development provisions of Class 5 of Part 1 of Schedule 2 to the Planning and Development Regulations, 2001,
    (b) the restrictions on exempted development contained at Article 9(1)(a)(ii) of Planning and Development Regulations, 2001, do not affect the exemption under the said Class 5 for a solely pedestrian access onto a public footpath and
    (c) the formation of the doorway for pedestrian use is, therefore, exempted development.

    Let us know how you do. Councils can be notoriously stubborn. But it's all there in black and white.

    @Peregrinus - the above may be of interest to you also.

    Post edited by Mellor on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,589 ✭✭✭standardg60


    Good work there. Only thing I'm wondering now is OP seems to have only a 1m strip of grass rather than footpath between the boundary and the road. Would a grass verge in public ownership qualify under the exemption too?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,589 ✭✭✭standardg60


    Also worth suggesting the OP do a planning search on their property too, it may have already been subject to a planning decision.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,433 ✭✭✭dunworth1


    already have done i submitted planning for an extension 3 years ago and that was the only record. the house is dated back to 1904 so if there was there is no record available from the council



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 329 ✭✭kevgaa


    Council refused planning on the advice to refuse from roads,

    In one section they say

    The gate is out of harm’s way and does not create a public safety hazard.

    But then recommend refusal as its set a undesirable precedent of potentially neighbours looking for a pedestrian gate leading to a potential public and safety hazard.

    @mellor any more precedents I can use for an appeal??



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,198 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    It's pretty unfair to not grant a safe gate, on the basis that somebody else's gate might unsafe. Especially if the gate is actually exempt.

    Did the council see the above ABP reference? Best thing you can do in contact them, reference the ABP board order, that you've been advise that the gate is exempt based on the Class 5 of Part 1 of Schedule 2. But it's very possible that you'd have to formally appeal to ABP.



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