We are doomed

Joe286 · 31-03-2025 01:39PM #1

It seems going by 2016 and afterwards that teachers don't want to strike.

They just seem to want to take any **** thrown at them by the Department.

The latest proposals for the LC are the latest example.

According to sources in the ASTI only about 2.5 k teachers have filled in their working conditions survey.

Most teachers won't go to union meetings but moan and moan about workload and poor discipline.

What a spineless group

Rocket_GD · 31-03-2025 02:17PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058404656/we-are-doomed

What is your point?

Joe286 · 31-03-2025 04:44PM

I think it's obvious. Standards and conditions dropping. Teachers are cowards. End of story

Treppen · 31-03-2025 06:12PM

Lol checked your previous posts Joe286 , I think you need a career break. This profession is making you very angry.

mtoutlemonde · 31-03-2025 06:14PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123314426#Comment_123314426

I disagree - it's all down to the unions and I know this from experience - anything for a quiet life. I attend meetings, propose ideas, ask for feedback and no progress made. I have been campaigning on an issue for years and no progress nor will there be.

There are obviously the teachers who are falling over themselves for an AP2 let alone AP1 so all yes men and women. Nobody says no anymore hence the reason we have the teachers ready to retire with full pension and the NQTs with middle aged teachers jumping ship without full pensions or has beennthe case in a few of the places I have worked.

kippy · 31-03-2025 06:19PM

I suspect similar things are happening in other unions. Union leaders on good money eventually finding their way into lucrative jobs on the employer side. Hard to rock the boat too much when you have your eye on a better gig with the persons you are rocking the boat with.....

That said, things aren't as strong on the ground either. A lot of very vocal people over the years have moved on, they've gotten a decent enough lifestyle or they've been worn down.

I know in a recent case close to home after a dispute over interviews that the wronged party was told best thing to do was to leave the school.....both from the union office in Dublin and local rep.......

Not exactly a great use of your union dues to have no backup......

mtoutlemonde · 31-03-2025 07:53PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123314709#Comment_123314709

The problem with the union is that you have to fight the union for support as well as the school. Most NQTs I know have no interest in joining a union despite me telling the, they need it to secure CID. So as years go on, union members will dwindle, management will have teachers jumping through hoops and I will retire hopefully.

Joe286 · 01-04-2025 04:28PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123314693#Comment_123314693

I'm not entirely clear on what you are saying. Who did you propose ideas to? The union? Any action is determined by the members ultimately

Look back to 2016. The members voted to strike. Asti standing committee didn't communicate what exactly the strike was about or decide on the issue. It was left open ended how long we were out for

But ultimately members chickened out after 2 days. We also had the spectacle of large numbers of people leaving the asti for the Tui to avoid a pay freeze.

The asti won a case against the Tui for poaching members during a dispute.

These events are over 9 years ago so I might not be very clear on all points but my central belief was that the members always cave but that union leadership is also lacking

Joe286 · 01-04-2025 04:30PM

Can you also clarify who is exactly leaving in your last few schools?

mtoutlemonde · 01-04-2025 10:59PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123317205#Comment_123317205

I raised my issues at union meetings and never hear anything back. I couid be more involved in my branch but have decided to stay an ordinary member. I go to meetings to inform myself. I hope that clears that up.

The people who I see leaving are the mid career people. Some are changing careers - granted some into management but this was a discussed at a recent branch meeting where we discussed that our schools are full of nqts and people on the old pension scheme waiting to clock their years to get out. The mid career people are not there. Teaching will not be seen as a lifetime career as it was. As much as I love teaching, it is not an easy job - and your point is relevant here - we are allowing it. The minute I start uploading weekly lesson plans - I'm out!!

Re the asti tui case - have the tui paid yet? Don't think so. Lunchtime protests aren't worth the trouble. We are signed up to S&S and CP hours for the rest of our careers - that would be worth fighting but no.

Joe286 · 02-04-2025 07:22PM

I don't see a big exodus in our school except people who get a job down the country. A lot of young people do travel abroad but come back to teaching.

But thats my experience based on one school.

The recruitment crisis in teaching is mainly I believe due to high rents and bad planning on the governments part. Demographics.

Given they leave children on waiting lists for years with serious medical needs - the government won't do anything radical about vacant classrooms.

mtoutlemonde · 02-04-2025 07:36PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123320858#Comment_123320858

I agree. They don't care about the students with English as a second language either.

2011abc · 18-04-2025 03:10PM

Most people seem to be in the union 'just in case' they get serious personal hassle from management but believe me the union's response will be to accept whatever the principal proposes.Union is as close to irrelevant as it can be already and will soon be gone .Last fighters in ASTI had to fight the leadership to get 'him' out in early Noughties .Fast forward a decade and the new ASTI leadership are sharing a stage with him at euro teaching conferences .Unions are all but dead ,thank God Im nearly out .I fought the good fight along with SOME of my colleagues but we lost .And most of those who sat on the sidelines were promoted ahead of us .Dont even get me started on the Easter conferences and Teaching Council .

mtoutlemonde · 19-04-2025 06:03PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123369075#Comment_123369075

I concur with you what say. Had serious bullyingb issues with a Principal and was told to let it go because of their reputation. I found that in order to fight the school, you had to first fight the union to act. With that, I went through all the procedures and with no real resolve, I left the school. I still attend branch meetings though. I think the Easter conferences should be online with members free to attend or not. I know a few branch reps who take it as a free holiday with free babysitting for the kids and me paying for it!!

Treppen · 21-04-2025 10:00AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123369075#Comment_123369075

At a very basic level id join a union simply because it's a numbers game.

If a school flips from majority union to majority non union then no good can possibly come from it.

byhookorbycrook · 21-04-2025 08:57PM

TBF, if you attend meetings , you can make your bid to attend congress . I know that in our local branch , so few people bother to turn up that it’s hard to find anyone willing to go.

amacca · 22-04-2025 12:02PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123376334#Comment_123376334

100% a lot don't seem to consider what their job would be like without any union....I even see it on the other thread...the expectation as extracurricular taken as a given....something that was voluntary for years is now an expectation and even you ask how much should we give the only answer is more more more!....to borrow from creedence clearwater revival...

We are doomed

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