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Is a TECE Drain Line a satisfactory (regulatory) substitute for a P-Trap?

  • 29-03-2025 01:29PM
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 103 ✭✭


    New build and en-suite bathroom with a shower using a TECEdrainline drain "flat", DN 50 side drain but we've a lot of odour problems and you can feel air coming up from the drain (and maybe sewer line).

    I suspect there's no P-Trap, is a P-Trap a regulatory requirement as well as this or is the TECE drain line supposed to suffice?



Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,899 ✭✭✭✭mickdw


    Well just looking at it, it appears to have sufficient drop to hold a water seal so would be regarded as an acceptable trap for a shower.

    Your issue is likely elsewhere in the plumbing with perhaps a flushing toilet pulling the water seal from the shower by syphon.

    To test this. Run shower for a few mins. See does draft stop when shower is off and without flushing anything or running any taps locally, see if draft remains gone.

    Then flush toilets a few times and let go hand basin full of water etc and see if problem returns.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,964 ✭✭✭10-10-20


    I bet you're right and that the horizontal section of soil piping needs an air admittance valve / auto-vent to break the vacuum.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,899 ✭✭✭✭mickdw


    I'd advise testing to ensure that all is well until a suction event takes place. If so, a suitably placed valve is probably the answer alright



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 103 ✭✭CHorn


    Thanks guys, I tried something like this already and draft still there, but let me try something a bit more scientific with exactly what you've suggested in the am.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 103 ✭✭CHorn


    I did as suggested here. It actually didn't make any difference whether I flushed toilet/emptied basin, the draft was there both before and after the shower, so my conclusion is there's no p-trap at all for the shower or it's damaged or not operating properly. Would this be a correct assumption or is there another test (+) I can do?

    I also put an amateur USB phone camera down and a pipe just goes horizontally away from the drain.

    The only variance I found was the following 'insert', not sure what it's called (anyone know?), but it reduces the draft. But only I believe by narrowing the circular drain aperture, unless it has some other purpose I'm not aware of or has a functionality that makes it act as some sort of trap to prevent gas getting through.

    Shower Drain Insert (In Context).JPG

    Here's a side sectional pic of it, it was by reading off these numbers that I thought this was a TECE 'flat' DrainLine product (it's 49mm high so matches).

    Shower Drain Insert.JPG

    But I'm now wondering whether it was something that just happened to be to hand to reduce the air flow (and therefore smell) coming through, and there may not be a TECE DrainLine product below. And given new build it's taken a while for pipes to get soiled plus there's some help from a generally open door with through draft plus a ventilation system that kicks in when the light goes on.

    Any ideas on next steps? Should I get someone with a camera to properly survey what's lurking down there?

    Post edited by CHorn on


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 363 ✭✭CoffeeImpala


    Do you have the seal that's numbered 2 in the spare parts diagram. I would have that was to stop air coming up between the insert and the walls of the drain. The insert then creates a trap.

    https://produktdaten.tece.de/web/tece_EN/en/tece/KAT03ABLAEUFEZUB/TECEdrainline%20drain%20%22flat%22%2C%20DN%2050%20side%20drain/%24catalogue/teceData/PR/650000/index.xhtml

    tece 660016 might help solve your problem.

    https://www.amazon.ie/TECE-Drainline-660016-Two-Stage-Membrane/dp/B00LBTCZES

    or run a drain snake down the drain pipe as they can get a bit slimy



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,360 ✭✭✭✭Calahonda52


    Can u post a picture of the plumbing setup outside on the wall?

    When you fill the shower trap with water and the insert in can you see water at the bottom

    “I can’t pay my staff or mortgage with instagram likes”.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,899 ✭✭✭✭mickdw


    Some of those very slim traps can be hit and miss. It would certainly be completely dependent on that insert and rubber ring seating correctly.

    Have a good look to be sure there is no debris in the bottom of the trap and that seal is there and clean and that insert sits right and hasn't been modified or anything like that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 103 ✭✭CHorn


    #2 seal, no don't have there doesn't appear to be one, the insert they used just happens to be a TECE part, but I don't think the drain itself is, I can run a drain cleaner (flexible plastic rod with spikes on it to catch and pull debris back) in which I've done, it's clean enough as I can also see when I put the camera in.

    Camera pics of below drain leading into horizontal pipe leading from there through wall to presumably sewer line (there's some debris but no blockage and it drains OK):

    Ensuite- Inside Drain (20250330_14_05_38).png Ensuite- Inside Drain (20250330_14_06_21).png


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 103 ✭✭CHorn


    There's just the shower itself on the wall, I'd have to take out the wall to see the pipes. With insert/immersion tube in or out I can see water in the bottom, but the outlet for the water is an all around (maybe 1cm wide) slit at the top here, which I can just get my finger (or camera) in to clean some/take pics. When you shower it first fills then overflows out, that's how it drains, from the top not the bottom.

    Pic 1 shows the drop cleaned out so you can see to the bottom. Again it's always going to be full of water unless/until it evaporates away. The insert (Pic 2 shows both for context, with immersion tube out) covers the slit at the top some when inserted (maybe 0.5cm) so reduces but doesn't eliminate air inflow when not in use or water outflow (of course or we'd flood!) when shower in use but otherwise does nothing (it seems to me).

    When not in use air just comes in, but with no trap I can see that's air from the sewer line. It's just designed to catch debris which falls to the bottom hopefully rather than going out with the waste water, again via the outlet at top.

    En Suite Drain Test_20250328-170727.JPG

    Shower Drain Insert (In Context).JPG

    .



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 103 ✭✭CHorn


    Thanks, yes, if that was what we're seeing here. But it looks like I assumed we've a TECE DrainLine product here (because the insert says it's TECE), when what I'm finding with the camera is that there's just a horizontal pipe connection underneath to the sewer line- NO slim trap at all. The TECE insert is just a coincidence and something the plumber had to hand to help narrow the outflow to reduce draft and smell, but it really does nothing.

    In the visible drain we can see we've just a tube drop to catch debris with a 1cm ring outlet at the top, which fills then lets water outflow when you shower and air back in when the shower is off. The insert just helps narrow the ring outlet to 0.5cm so draft/smell is reduced but not eliminated.

    Post edited by CHorn on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,899 ✭✭✭✭mickdw


    So no dropped section at all without outlet. Very dodgy.

    So no water at all sitting in base of outlet?

    I'd seal up that shower outlet until you can get this rectified as sewer gases can be lethal.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 103 ✭✭CHorn


    No, no water in base of outlet. I've put the insert back in for now as it reduces the ring outlet plus all doors open for draft. And now looking for a good plumber to come check it out.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,899 ✭✭✭✭mickdw


    Why would anyone have done this. Surely you cannot be that restricted space wise?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 103 ✭✭CHorn


    There's underfloor heating but that's no excuse. It's a new build, we've had a lot of problems. Concrete/rubble in other drains. We couldn't get hot water in the kitchen to start, had to run a new separate line to the hot water tank. The tiles in this bathroom have had to be relaid twice already as they won't stick because the concrete wasn't dried properly.

    When we first started to notice problems with this drain we found the insert was filled with stones and the bathroom flooded when we ran the shower for 20 minutes by mistake. If you look at the pictures above you'll see some of the smaller stones made their way down below, now causing an obstruction that will catch hair etc…

    But we'd never have believed someone would install a shower on top of the main sewer line out of the house without a decent p-trap. I still don't believe it and hope the plumber coming later this week finds something I can't see or don't know or have overlooked, I'm just an amateur here trying to work through these problems. Thanks guys for all your help.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,899 ✭✭✭✭mickdw


    Thats all shocking stuff.

    I thought this was going to be a retrofit of a real old house where everything is a compromise. For a new build, it's nuts.

    Is it a house you bought or a one off build?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 103 ✭✭CHorn


    One off build. We demolished the old house in Jan 2020, just in time to lay the foundations before C19 and then stop for lockdowns and pick up again 2 years later. Thank God C19 didn't kill us, but this nearly has…



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,899 ✭✭✭✭mickdw


    If you did it as a self build, you will know who did what at least.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 103 ✭✭CHorn


    Yes, just need to confirm what I suspect and understand exactly what's wrong before I approach the builder.



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