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Are some planning documents removed off CoCo portals?

  • 01-04-2025 08:58AM
    #1
    10-10-20
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,886 ✭✭✭


    Folks, a question for you guys who might know more about the local authority planning process - I'm reviewing an historical planning application from 2018 on a local field where I know at the time there was a complete tree survey uploaded in addition to an archaeological assessment and landscape report, which are all referenced in the original application…

    image.png

    Are these documents removed off the portal after a time? I'd like to think that nothing is supposed to be lost, but I can't find any of these in the 80 documents (63 of which were objections) for a particular site.

    Any ideas? Thanks!



Comments

  • #2
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 42,874 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    are you sure it wasnt added at the end of another report? does it look like the documents were scanned or were they direct uploads?

    sometimes documents are redacted, but i cannot see any reason why a tree survey would be redacted, unless it included some kind of sensitive persional or business information.

    if its not online, your only option is going into the council to look at the physical file. if its not there, its not likely to have been submitted.



  • #3
    Victor
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,698 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    I can't imagine documents being deliberately being removed.

    Some documents are redacted.

    Certain types of projects have a tendency to not show up on certain council websites, e.g. if the application went straight to ABP.



  • #4
    muffler
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 46,870 ✭✭✭✭muffler


    I doubt if the docs have been removed. Probably more of a case of them not being scanned in the first instance due to their bulk. In my local council area some documents relating to historical files seem to just disappear the odd occasion. But you can always request the hard copy of the file for viewing and/or getting copies of it's contents.

    Here it's free to view files up to 7 years but there's a 30 Euro retrieval fee for files older than that. In all situations you have to pay for the copies.



  • #5
    10-10-20
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,886 ✭✭✭10-10-20


    It was referred to ABP alright, but I fail to see how that caused the loss of the their-party reports off the local authority's site. The reason I wanted to see the tree survey was to review the condition of the historical tree-line on the site due to recent storm losses.

    The other funky thing is that the same particular site has had four planning requests raised between 2004 and 2018 and these were historically showing via the map view, but at this time only the most recent application shows. You can still locate the older planning applications if you text search for the location by name. Oddly, other sites near-by do show all their historical applications. I've emailed the CoCo about that to see if it's an IT issue on their end.



  • #6
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 42,874 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123316190#Comment_123316190

    What do you mean "planning requests raised"?

    Do you mean planning applications made?

    It's not unusual for previous applications for the very same site to be unselectable on the GIS system, as they tend to be "hidden" behind the most recent application.



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  • #7
    NattyO
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 577 ✭✭✭NattyO


    Depending on the LA, the uploading of documents can be a bit hit and miss. I find some planning depts upload everything, and categorise them logically, while others upload some documents but not others, or upload them in a way that defies logic.

    I've been told, but can't confirm, that some staff in some planning depts don't upload certain studies, on the request of the producers of those studies, so that anyone who wants said study needs to go to the producer and ask (for a fee). But like I said, I don't know if that is accurate.



  • #8
    10-10-20
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,886 ✭✭✭10-10-20


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123316238#Comment_123316238

    Yes, applications. Pardon my layman terminology.

    As an example for this site that I'm interested in, I see no historical planning applications in the top blue bar where in the past I saw "(1 of 4)" listed:

    image.png

    On another local site I see (1 of 6), with the oldest from 2007 and the newest from 2019:

    image.png


  • #9
    10-10-20
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,886 ✭✭✭10-10-20


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123316308#Comment_123316308

    Then it's not living up to the headline of transparency!

    image.png


  • #10
    NattyO
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 577 ✭✭✭NattyO


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123316344#Comment_123316344

    As someone who has put in dozens of planning applications over the past 25 years or so, however I would describe the process, transparent wouldn't be a word I'd use!



  • #11
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 42,874 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123316337#Comment_123316337

    Yeah that's weird



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  • #12
    muffler
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 46,870 ✭✭✭✭muffler


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123316337#Comment_123316337

    Are they different sites?



  • #13
    10-10-20
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,886 ✭✭✭10-10-20


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123316908#Comment_123316908

    Those are two different sites, yes.



  • #14
    L1011
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 72,751 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    1 - have you got all layers turned on?

    2 - have you tried searching by address? The maps are often poor to nonexistent for older applications. My local council has applications back to 1956 scanned, mostly, but only those in the past decade and a half or so are mapped.



  • #15
    muffler
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 46,870 ✭✭✭✭muffler


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123317043#Comment_123317043

    That would be some trick seeing as the Planning Act didn't come into force until October 1964. :)



  • #16
    L1011
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 72,751 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123317077#Comment_123317077

    Town & Regional Planning Act 1934 covered certain types of planning.

    If a council had a Planning Scheme, you needed to make planning applications. Only became nationwide with the 1964 Act.



  • #17
    muffler
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 46,870 ✭✭✭✭muffler


    Would that not indicate that there was only 1 application on one site and 6 on the other or am I reading that wrong?



  • #18
    10-10-20
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,886 ✭✭✭10-10-20


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123317043#Comment_123317043

    Layers - check.

    image.png

    Search by address - yes, that works fine as I mentioned.



  • #19
    L1011
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 72,751 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123317158#Comment_123317158

    Old files just aren't mapped then, by the sounds of it.



  • #20
    10-10-20
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,886 ✭✭✭10-10-20


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123317088#Comment_123317088

    Ok, so both are unusual sites from a planning perspective…

    The site which I'm interested in has had four planning applications,

    • one in 2004 for a number of apartments in two blocks which was withdrawn.
    • one in 2006 for 8 houses which was grated but expired before any construction happened.
    • one in 2012 to attempt to extend the granted permission from 2006, but was refused an extension.
    • one in 2018 which also expired before any construction happened!

    The other site which I mentioned with six previous planning applications is a complete balls-up (it's an SHD) and it went into a judicial review and back to ABP last year. But the point is that I can see the previous planning history on that second site via the map view, but I cannot see the previous planning history of the first site from the map view where I was able to see it in the past. (hope it's clear)



  • #21
    10-10-20
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,886 ✭✭✭10-10-20


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123317167#Comment_123317167

    But it was until before Christmas '24 as I checked!



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  • #22
    muffler
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 46,870 ✭✭✭✭muffler


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123317191#Comment_123317191

    Hmmm that's a bit weird so. It's possibly a technical glitch but only the Council could confirm that.



  • #23
    10-10-20
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,886 ✭✭✭10-10-20


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123317220#Comment_123317220

    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123317188#Comment_123317188

    I was told that the GIS team are looking at the map issue now. I'll let you all know.

    In regards to the missing documents, I'll forget about that as it's just an annoyance and not one that I want to pay for.



  • #24
    10-10-20
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,886 ✭✭✭10-10-20


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123317707#Comment_123317707

    Right, update from the CoCo in question:

    "Further to your email, of yesterday, we had a 18 year restriction, on spatial data.  This has been reviewed and removed. The Planning portal, will soon show applications, from 2002 onwards."

    That doesn't actually appear to address my concern nor answer the question of what happened, but when I look at my local map now I can see the historically planning applications and the spider's web of overlapping boundaries for each - which wasn't showing yesterday - is back where it should be.

    image.png


  • #25
    Mellor
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,377 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123316308#Comment_123316308

    I can't say whether that does or doesn't happen, but commercial interests is not a reason to not put the report in the public domain. It's relevant to the planning application . People are entitle to read it.

    It's not like giving somebody access to it lets the use it themselves.



  • #26
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 42,874 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123325155#Comment_123325155

    ive had information redacted from public files for "sensitive commercial information".

    stuff id expected the council to refuse to redact, but they did.

    Farmers herd numbers, lands under owndeship for spreading… that kind of thing.



  • #27
    Mellor
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,377 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123326000#Comment_123326000

    Sure but that’s sensitive data. Similar to personal information (health, finances) being redacted from an objection. And I’d expect only the specific lines are redacted and the doc uploaded.

    That’s very different to a report being withheld not because of the data/contents but because it was produced for a fee.



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