Hamas strike on Israel - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

Legitimate self defense lol.

I hate the way they keep saying they use hospitals and children as shields too. How are they in any way shields if the Israeli scum just bomb them anyway? If anything hamas would be safer away from children and hospitals.

~I'm afraid it does. Why mention Israel being a "nation state", for one.

Christ you're reaching here trying to set someone up so you can accuse them of being antisemitic. It's disgusting to watch how people justifying Israel's butchering of Palestinians talk out both sides of their mouths with respect to the UN. One day, they say a country must be full member state so its people can defend themselves, the next, that the UN doesn't matter and so their resolutions can be ignored.

I posted the below message in a post responding to you last week. And you didn't answer it.

And again, for the second time, please indicate what you would consider a reasonable response for the Palestinians who have suffered attacks (during a ceasefire) that have resulted in the deaths of circa 1000 people. We know Israel used such attacks to justify their levelling of Gaza and killing at least 50,000 people outright so leaving aside the 'State Actor' rule that is apparently now being used, what would you consider a proportional response to Israel's barbarity for the Palestinians to consider?

Can you answer it now, at the third time of asking?

And around and around we go. I have posted this before but as per usual you don't back up whatever self defence nonsense you are pushing. Very disingenuous posting.

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There is zero distinction between state and non state actors when it comes to protecting the civilian population. Why don't you post a link showing indiscriminate bombing is fine when there are non state actors involved. You are just muddying the waters and pretending to know the law. You have been caught out before on this so please provide links anymore. To be clear, IHL applies to all parties where it comes to protecting innocent civilians. As the poster above said, you are victim blaming.

I'll provide a link from our government.

gov.ie - International humanitarian law

IHL also applies to both states and non-state actors involved in international armed conflict.

The parties to a conflict must at all times distinguish between the civilian population and combatants in order to spare the civilian population and civilian property. Neither the civilian population as a whole, nor individual civilians, may be attacked. Attacks may only be made against military objectives.

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Please outline where breaking the ceasefire to start bombing refugee tents (because that's all that's left) full of civilians is self defence. And also explain how stopping humanitarian aid is self defence. No reply expected.

Nearly every single independence or revolutionary movement in history has been labelled 'terrorists' by the occupying power (including the IRA in 1916-21 of course).

It’s that simple — Hamas is finished in Gaza. It's time to admit defeat, release the hostages, and leave. I see some posters suggesting that Israel has not given Hamas the opportunity to return the hostages. Israel would take back those hostages at a moment's notice, and you know it.

Not sure if people are familiar with the Ask Project, but they have access to Gaza and interviewed some of the people there about who they want to rule. Here are the answers.

Thats exactly what you're doing. You play on "they are a nation state" . You are defending a terrorist organisation. An organisation that happens to be a state.

Hamas are also a terrorist organisation. Its not an either or debate. Its just israel are far more efficient and killing children, women and babies.

Actually, as posted here multiple times with corroborating reportage, Hamas had agreed a ceasefire on the basis of hostage releases. Israel breached that ceasefire agreement, refused to enter Stage 2 talks then started bombing Gaza again.

The reasons have also been posted - in summary:

1. Netanyahu needs to sign the Govt. budget by the end of this month. If he does not, the Govt. collapses and there will be an election.
2. In order to sign-off the budget, he needs support in the form of Ben-Gvir who resigned when the ceasefire came into effect
3. Ben-Gvir agreed to re-enter the cabinet if the war was restarted
4. Netanyahu restarted the war, Ben-Gvir is back on side and in the cabinet, budget will presumably pass and the Govt. survives
5. They can all go back to feeding from the trough and celebrate murdering innocent civilians

And if you don't believe that, go back through the posts and see how every single hostage family has condemned Netanyahu for abandoning the hostages yet again.

They agreed a ceasefire on October 8th? It is quite simple. Hamas could have handed back the hostages on October 8th, handed over the ringleaders and said it was an unauthorised operation (straight out of the SF/IRA playbook of the 1970s). That would have been that.

All this guff about Israel not giving them the chance to give back the hostages, why couldn't they give them back the same way they took them?

The only thing I hear on here is excuses for Hamas.

It is a nation state. The question is why do you throw that fact out there as if it stands for something else.

You seem to misunderstand the ceasefire that was agreed between Israel and Hamas.

Hamas is not "allowing" Netanyahu do anything. Netanyahu is doing exactly what he needs to do to stay in power - abandon the hostages and continue the war.

And to be clear, its not me saying it - the Israelis are saying it.

As for holding hostages, you know well that Israel has held thousands of Palestinians in detention for years. Now including an Oscar Winner.

But that was the deal - Hamas release the hostages, Israel release Palestinians and Israel ceases the war. Israel reneged on that deal for political reasons - its naive to think otherwise.

A strange choice you put forward as if there were only two options.

Germany was a member of the league of nations but left under Hitler. It continued to exist after world war 2 but as a divided nation.

Israel is certainly a nation. Probably the most evil nation in existence right now.

The greatest shame for us Irish was Michael Martin kow towing to Trump and not speaking out for Palestine. The greatest shame for the Western world is enabling and permitting Israel to run an apartheid country that is now massacring men, women and children in the hundreds of thousands.

If there were any justice in the world, Western tanks would be rolling into Gaza to repel the genocidal bastards that are exterminating the Palestinian women and children.

Israel had over 1,200 Palestinians hostage before October 7th. I agree the Palestinian hostages should be released but I think the ringleader of genocide Netanyahu should be the prime target, not Hamas, and sent to the Hague immediately.

The Israeli's should have their nuclear weapons confiscated and all US funding of their genocide and everything else ended. AIPAC should be forced to register with fara and dual citizenship ended.

That'd be a good start.

Hamas proved that it had no intention of releasing hostages given that it still holds several living foreign nationals. Thailand and Nepal have waited 18 months without result - why would you think Hamas would have handed over Israeli hostages??

This sort of nonsense shows that either you don't understand the situation at all, or you're being disingenuous. To be kind.

Israel are not sitting back though. Even in peace time. No peace can be gained by stealing land.