Donald Trump the Megathread part II - Mod Warning added to OP 10/1/26

thatsdaft · 25-03-2025 11:44AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123295766#Comment_123295766

You are shifting goalposts not being able to prove that europe is freeloading on traffic going thru Red Sea, if you cast your eyes to recent history european navies also constituted majority of the warships that did protect traffic in this area in last few years

Yes Ireland and Europe has underspent on defence

But that’s precisely what US wanted and was their policy for 80 years now until Trump came along

Just like the MAGAts you have no knowledge of geography, economics or history and are assuming people will swallow drivel and lies unquestionably

Cluedo Monopoly · 25-03-2025 11:50AM

I just read about that Signal group chat. Unbelievable stuff. Amazing insight on the other clowns surrounding Trump. I didn't know who half the names were. The lack of professionalism is staggering.

I have always wondered when Trump will start to fire people - before 100 days or after. I think it might be before. I predicted long ago that Musk would get a P45 by summer. Others could follow soon.

twinytwo · 25-03-2025 11:51AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123295707#Comment_123295707

So you are going to ignore the reality of the situation, European history and US foreign policy since WW2? Fair enough.

What exactly does the US bombing Yemen for its actions in the red sea as a result of Israeli actions in Gaza have to do with Europe?… by all means expand on our "freeloading" - clearly you have superior sources of information.

Tony EH · 25-03-2025 11:56AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123295663#Comment_123295663

Hegeseth should be gone.

He should never have got the position in the first place because he was demonstrably unsuited for such a role. He's a weekend warrior now in charge of the most powerful military in the world, simply because he'll bend the knee to a manchild wannabe dictator. It's a ludicrous scenario. You wouldn't even see such an obvious wrong way to doing things in a computer game.

which begs the question just how compromised is he at this point?

The bigger question is how much everyone in this admin is compromised, from the top down. It's clear that Putin is pulling Trump's strings and the obsequious, lickspittle, nature of Trump's cabinet picks display a compromise all of its own.

These people are extremely dangerous, because they're utterly reckless and care only for their own self aggrandisement.

The only hope for that country is if they get a right kicking at the mid terms and some sort of normality can return to the proceedings over there. Because right now it's an absolute car crash.

MrMusician18 · 25-03-2025 12:08PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123295707#Comment_123295707

That's a complete misreading of post war European history. The Americans wanted to keep Europe relatively weak militarily for two reasons: to stop them fighting amongst themselves but also long term to prevent Europe becoming a military pole to rival it. By providing the defence umbrella, the US knew Europe could never stray too far from it's policy goals, ensuring communism stayed behind the iron curtain.

AbusesToilets · 25-03-2025 12:16PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123295209#Comment_123295209

In fairness, Signal is open source and frequently audited. It's currently the best secure messaging platform available. EFF and other privacy focused organisations promote it for that reason. Israel and Russia are constantly trying to undermine it. Alternatives like Wicker or Wire have transparency or functionality issues. Regardless, there's no hand waving this away. Multiple violations of the law in this text thread, if not outright felonies. Average service member would be quick marched to Leavenworth for doing a fraction of what happened in this incidence.

All_in_Flynn · 25-03-2025 12:22PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123295749#Comment_123295749

You've fallen hook line and sinker for the MAGA rhetoric.

It was America itself who wanted to de-fang the European nations and act as the guardians. Former President Eisenhower was concerned about how we as European's seemed to like to fight each other too much.

This has suited America for decades. But now that Trump is throwing soundbites around and it's gullible people like yourself who lap it up. He'll get what he want's - Europe will without doubt now increase military spending. But it's going to come at a cost to America who will become more isolated. For the time being they can no longer be trusted to govern themselves coherently. An ally, yes but a stupid one.

Field east · 25-03-2025 12:22PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123294429#Comment_123294429

there are ONLY TWO things going on under the Trump administration that have potentially very serious consequences for world order and the world economy Ie (1)bringing US industry / businesses operation overseas and. (2) the 180 degree turn re its relationship with Russia.

So let’s assume that it will be a democratic president the next and with the support of congress both of the above can be turned around though it might take several years.

With the way Trump is behaving he probably will have enough people pi - - ed off by the next election that the GOP may not get in to that seat of power

If your typical Overseas US overseas business thinks that they are better off staying overseas then they can ‘drag out’ their return until 2028

Things could also change if Trump Is attacked by a ‘flu’ that he never recovers from

amandstu · 25-03-2025 12:24PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123295663#Comment_123295663

Not A serious point ,perhaps but did you notice his uncanny resemblance to Jim Carrey as he laid into the Atlantic?

Dumb ,Dumber and Hegseth.

Edit Vance can't be fired.Is this bad for him?

LambshankRedemption · 25-03-2025 12:26PM

8 years ago, we were in the early days of Trump Whitehouse 1.0 and it felt like there was a firing of some high level members of the new administration every other day. I just looked it up, General Flynn was fired on February 17th. This time around, I'm not familiar with any (so far!). Maybe this latest revelation will be the straw that breaks the the camels back. Will we see a new wave of firings?

aloyisious · 25-03-2025 12:41PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123295766#Comment_123295766

And Greenland?

LambshankRedemption · 25-03-2025 12:44PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123295888#Comment_123295888

It's currently the best secure messaging platform that is available to anyone. I think most of the shock from this revelation stems from, considering the massive defence budget, that they were using an off the shelf application. If they were using their own application, even if it was a fork of the Signal code, it would have been impossible to accidentally add a leading journalist to the discussion.

Suckler · 25-03-2025 12:48PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123295749#Comment_123295749

Just because you imagine something; it does not make it a "fact".

fly_agaric · 25-03-2025 12:50PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123295749#Comment_123295749

It is not a fact. Below is a potted history of Europe since WW2.

First it was mostly in ruins after destroying itself, hardly in a fit state to defend itself from anyone.

The USA could have demobilised, exited affairs in Europe stage left after defeating the Nazis, and everything as far as France might have become some kind of Soviet puppet states under threat of military force from Stalin's armies or something…but it was a different country and they had wiser leaders back then and understood that probably was not a smart thing for the US to do (apart from any moral aspect of leaving people in W. Europe potentially to suffer under Communist dictatorships).

Up to late 80s and end of Cold war Europe remained an arena of conflict between US/USSR and their world visions, the main and most important one.

During the Cold war both "Western" and "Eastern" European allies (most of latter now in the EU) of the 2 superpowers rearmed very heavily and they contributed significantly to military power that would be used on the side of each superpower in Europe, if the Cold war ever turned hot.

Europeans decided to reduce their militaries and spending on them after Cold war ended, which I think was natural since the main threat to them (Soviet Union) was gone and their US "protector" was still very much a firm ally and a friend and the last standing superpower, who nobody would dare challenge militarily anyway unless they had a death wish.

You are right that could be categorised as "freeloading", but until quite recently (perhaps 2010s) the US did not mind too much and certainly preferred that situation to alternative of Europe as a collective ever becoming a military power itself, and perhaps independent in policy to the US.

They still don't really want that IMO. They might want Europeans to buy some more US weapons, that's about the size of it. The people in this admin./and what now seems like the majority of modern Republican party just hate us, and they currently want to weaken and divide us for several other reasons.

They likely will continue that policy until we elect more politicians they approve of (i.e. dumb far right populists/wannabe autocrats with their paws out for a buck anywhere they can get it, who will do as they are told).

everlast75 · 25-03-2025 12:56PM

I read online someone just called it Whiskeyleaks. 💀

aloyisious · 25-03-2025 12:58PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123295929#Comment_123295929

I'd wait for the return of one of the disappeared or a two-post promotion inside the Admin team. They do exist. I would not want Bannon resurrected.

Reportedly the person listed as being officially in charge of Doge is not Musk but Amy Gleason as Administrator of Doge while she holds down another position within the Admin. Clearly she is a more capable administrator as she had succeeded [to date] in keeping out of the lamplight.

General Flynn was fired after Trump realised that the advice he got from Obama not to hire him was real-time gold. Obama had also terminated Flynn as head of the DIA during his time in office.

Manic Moran · 25-03-2025 01:09PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123295017#Comment_123295017

Nothing wrong with the investigation, but I don't see heads rolling. Certainly not many, and those that will I don't think will be soon. On the legal side, we have precedent. Nothing happened after the Clinton email thing, even though the investigation concluded that multiple contents should have been classified. They weren't, there was no mishandling of materials marked as sensitive, so there was no specific violation. Thus seems to be the case here. Or, in other words, errors were made, but it wasn't enough to warrant prosecution.

The difference isn't legal, it's competence. Clinton and those she communicated with didn't CC reporters (or as far as I know anyone who shouldn't have been in the loop). The military routinely fires people for "loss of confidence" in their abilities. However, despite the lack of experience and confidence many of us may personally have had in some of the appointees, Congress still confirmed them. For that same Congress to do more than censure the people in question, those Congressmen will have to effectively reverse themselves only a short time after they expressed their confidence. I don't see that happening, there will probably be tut-tutting, maybe a slap on the wrist. If it's important enough to the voters , I guess we'll see in about a year and a half.

I agree with your last paragraph in its entirety, and as far as I'm concerned, they are certainly not increasing their chances that I will vote for them or those who appointed them. I didn't before, but I'm only one voter. Apparently I'm not in a sufficient plurality.

AbusesToilets · 25-03-2025 01:19PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123296073#Comment_123296073

Sorry Manic, but there was clear mishandling of highly classified material here. This was TS level information that would only be accessible in a scif, being transmitted on an unapproved platform. That's before one even gets into disclosing said information to a person without clearance to receive it. I'm addition, the deleting of conversations are a violation of federal records laws.

aloyisious · 25-03-2025 01:23PM

Sometimes, for the sake of confidence in the ranks, it's necessary to wash ones laundry in quiet and I think that will be what will happen here. The offender against Trump's peace of mind may be shuffled sideways to a nothing post as a sign of Trumps displeasure while the others involved in the text chat will heed the cabinet re-shuffle. The only thing to worry about is if Trump resurrects the career of some-one he had fired in the past to fill a spot vacated in any sideways shuffle. Bannon is still knocking on the door from outside.

I keep in mind that the way AH kept his appointees on their toes in the 1930's was by playing their ambitions against each other forcing them to curry for his favour.

Incidental to moves of Trump appointees, Louis De Joy has left the USPS with immediate effect not retiring as planned next month. It seems he had differences with Elon Musk over access to USPS staff data.

Manic Moran · 25-03-2025 01:25PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123295209#Comment_123295209

It's not waste, though. Signal is a free app.

The point is true about the indictment. The US is great at making high-end weapons, but hasn't the best record in other areas. Last week Hegseth announced the cancellation of an expensive, never-gotten-right-after-years piece of HR software. Turns out it was the Defense Civilian Human Resources Management System, started in 2018 and implementation scheduled for one year, with a $36mn budget. In 2025 it was still not quite right, the budget had hit $280mn.

At the time, however, because he didn't specify what it was in his video, most of us thought it was an entirely different new HR software system, which itself has taken years to implement and still isn't quite right.

The reality is that Signal is generally good enough, as long as there isn't an accident, and I'm not sure in the prioritisation of things that the DoD (or NSA or CIA or any other TLA) needs to do, such a software trumps anything else they need to spend money on. Unfortunately, most security leaks are entirely accidental, and there are few useful ways of exchanging information which are not subject to failure when the human element is involved. Special Order 191 comes to mind.

Virgil° · 25-03-2025 01:36PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123294922#Comment_123294922

It was certainly stupid, which goes back to the issue of possible censure by Congress. Will heads roll? I doubt it, though the National Security Council and Armed Services Committees have both started looking into it, to start with.

It was more than stupid. Stupid was adding the reporter to the chat by mistake. This was pure recklessness, fecklessness and incompetence. Running highly classified data and the highest levels of sensitive governmental operations through an app that is only a stones throw away from a WhatsApp group as a matter of process (because there's no way this is a once off) is not "stupid". That's outrageously downplaying the seriousness of this.

I doubt there's anyone in the military chain of command who doesn't use Signal. It's been an issue identified at the J6 level for years, but nobody's done anything about it yet, probably because there is no affordable alternative. Still, Four months ago the FBI recommended that people (everyone, not just government) move to apps like Signal because it was considered more secure.

This is sidestepping the issue. I work for a large multinational. I and just about every other one of my colleagues have personal cellphones. It could be said of just about every one of us that we "use WhatsApp" hell we even use "unsecured and unencrypted whatsapp groups". We may even chat about work related topics in those WhatsApp groups. Replace whatsapp with "signal" or any other off the shelf consumer level app.

If it was discovered that I was exposing confidential customer data in said groups however. I and everyone in those groups would certainly be fired and potentially be in some amount legal trouble.

Our workplace provides laptops and cellphones with a high level of in-built security and encryption. We are required to take regular trainings to ensure that we align with up to date security protocols. And I'm not running the largest and most important military and intelligence apparatus in the world. I'm not at the tippy top upper echelons of the worlds most powerful government. I'm as close to a ground level grunt as you can get.

Words cannot describe the utterly staggering, world shaking, levels of f*ckup that this is. This is the kind of mess up that could easily threaten global security. It could cost you your life. I'm really confused as to why you're attempting to downplay this to any degree.

From the definitions and examples found there and what I've been able to gather from the articles, the information would have been considered at least "Confidential." That doesn't trigger the requirements of a SCIF or secret networks. Maybe some information would have been "Secret", I presume the investigating agencies will come to a conclusion on that.

Mostly because Goldberg from the Atlantic exercised more discretion than all other participants in this group and has redacted or not included information he deemed too sensitive to share. And left the group before even its likely conclusion.

But again downplaying. The real issue is not even this particular operation or classified information set. But how the highest levels of your government are choosing to operate. As I said before. This isn't a once off. This is just the one f*ckup that we know about.

Regardless, even the most secure system is going to fail when someone does something stupid.

The point again is that they weren't even attempting to USE said system. So that's completely moot. I mean the government of America will build a SCIF room in your goddamn house if they deem it appropriate. There really is no excuse.

LambshankRedemption · 25-03-2025 01:38PM

It's not waste, though. Signal is a free app.

It's free but whats more it's Open Source. So it would have been very easy to fork it (the process of downloading the source code and modifying it), rebrand it as something else, remove some of the features, like disappearing messages that break federal rules, host it somewhere internally and only let certain people download and use it. A couple of software engineers from the NSA could have easily done that. And if someone makes a typo when creating a group chat it would have responded "EG is not on SecSig". This leak therefore could not have happened. Funny how tech genius Elon Musk didn't suggest something like that.

Loafing Oaf · 25-03-2025 01:42PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123295929#Comment_123295929

Of those at the top level I'd say it'll be just Walz if anyone…

Manic Moran · 25-03-2025 01:50PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123295902#Comment_123295902

The problem here is that you seem to have leaped from 1950s to today and kindof skipped the bits in the middle. Whatever may have been the US's thinking at the time of Eisenhower evidently wasn't the case in the Cold War period if one looks at the sizes of the relative militaries of Europe. How big was the Irish Defence Forces in, say 1985, compared to today?

Belgium used to field an armored corps in Germany in the Cold War. Today it doesn't have a single tank. In the late 80s, the Netherlands had three times as many tanks as the UK does today. They dropped to zero tanks owned, and 18 leased from Germany. In 1982, the UK was able to send, on basically no notice, five nuclear submarines, two carriers, eight destroyers, and fifteen frigates. If the same thing were to happen today? One carrier (if the shaft is behaving itself), two destroyers, five frigates. The German state of affairs has been well covered. I'm sure you'll see similar rises and falls for most European countries, bar Greece and Turkey who are their own special case, and the Scandanavians.

There has been an utterly precipitous collapse in European defense capability in the last thirty years. You will recall the Europeans ran out of ammunition against Libya after only a couple of days and needed US help.

Is there anything wrong in Mr Kubilus' statement? Is there anything wrong with Hegseth's statement that only the US has the capability of taking significant offensive action against Houthi assets threatening Red Sea transit? Maybe Israel, granted. There's an argument for France.

golfball37 · 25-03-2025 01:58PM

It’s both a good laugh and a but shocking to see what’s going on in America . But we need to stop looking over there and shouting not fair not fair.
As a continent we need to take ownership of our own defense and affairs. So what if a one time ally calls us names. We aren’t gonna change them now. What can do is start a process where we are not dependent on them and start now

Manic Moran · 25-03-2025 02:08PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123296101#Comment_123296101

Perhaps you know something I don't, since as far as I know nobody has actually released the full transcripts to know the recommended classification levels of the information. I posted a link a little earlier with examples of what is typically considered an appropriate classification level for what sort of subject, you might be surprised as to what is only 'confidential' and doesn't require a SCIF, let alone rising to the level of "Secret" which, as I just pointed out, is the same recommended level of classification as found on Clinton's server which itself did not result in criminal information. I personally would be very surprised if anything in that chat hit "Top Secret". If we fought WW3, it would be done on a "Secret" system (and not one in a SCIF).

You are correct that if they deleted the conversation it is a violation of records laws. However, all that is required to avoid violation is if someone in the government kept the record. Note the alteration of the Federal Records Act in 2014 after the Clinton thing which specifically allowed for the use of non-government email as long as some government email address was CCd, even if everyone else in the chain deleted their copies.

That said, I think it's also brought to more public light a problem of modern technology which the laws haven't yet been updated to consider. As the earlier-linked articles observed from before this current story broke, the use of apps like Signal result in better security at the risk of transparency: I doubt the FRA has been diligently followed by any government agency over the last couple of years because there is no server involved in the process, each individual 'phone image would have to be retained after decommissioning. The easiest solution I can think of is that the government sets up a server attached to a user ID which is made a part of every single Signal group created by government personnel. If so, though, that computer had better be the cyber-equivalent to Fort Knox combined with Alcatraz as every hacker on the planet would be going for that one IP.

Headshot · 25-03-2025 02:15PM

Trump calls leaks a "Glitch" and attacks the "Sleazeball" journalist

It would be laughable only for it being so dangerous.

Good old Trump trying to take the attention away from his administration

Sigma101 · 25-03-2025 02:22PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123296192#Comment_123296192

In that surreal new MAGA world, I suspect the only person who will face real consequences will be the Atlantic journalist Jeff Goldberg.

Igotadose · 25-03-2025 02:33PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123294914#Comment_123294914

Buuut… did they do the call on their personal phones? Do we doubt bad guys have all their phone numbers? Do we doubt hostile agents can, at least, detect those phones in use? Were they in public when doing this, and why not in a secure communication facility? (Apparently someone was in Moscow.)

Rank and file military chatting over a channel to discuss distribution of MREs or whatever isn't as concerning as the VP, SecDef, National Security chief and so on discussing plans for war.

For all we know, the open sourced Signal app has been hacked - not like, say, China would tell anyone they could intercept Signal and decode it, especially if they detect the VP's phone in use.

Really indefensible in any way. Resignations should happen starting with Waltz.

Igotadose · 25-03-2025 02:38PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123296338#Comment_123296338

Regarding the deletion of records - if this conversation had been done on a Pentagon secure network, which I expect exists, then the records retention laws apply.

Trump's lackeys used Signal, because this administration hates the records law - secrecy is their thing, Trump hates anyone keeping records on his activity. So, no records kept of this war planning activity. Pretty damned nasty imo.

Donald Trump the Megathread part II - Mod Warning added to OP 10/1/26

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