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Ireland's reliance on Corporation Tax receipts

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Subscribers, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,803 ✭✭✭hometruths


    In fairness I think our politicians are privately under no illusions about the danger.

    It is the electorate that will get the shock.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 31,974 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    It is not almost entirely thanks to it, though it is a big part of it.

    You haven't answered my question at all though. How will they magically transplant these back to the US?



  • Registered Users, Subscribers, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,803 ✭✭✭hometruths


    A very big part of it. The capital allowances etc for intangible assets were introduced in 2015, the bumper rise since is probably not a coincidence:

    Flp-pzrWAAIqmcC.png


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,471 ✭✭✭herbalplants


    Remember the shills only get paid when you react to them.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,213 ✭✭✭greenfield21


    Changes to the tax code and also tariffs can force companies to do what US Gov wants. But some on here don't believe tariffs will do anything, time will tell on that one.



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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 31,974 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    I mean, I'm not the one prophesying about it happening overnight.

    There are risks with a large change in the US tax code put forward by Congress that could contribute to companies moving more IP back to the US. But there is no sign of that happening yet - it is not something the Administration can do with an EO. Also, it has taken a long time for the Irish situation to develop and the US is an inherently chaotic and unreliable country at the moment and large corporations also value stability.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,366 ✭✭✭✭Francie Barrett


    I am not sure I would agree with you. Everything I've read from our politicians suggests that they really believe that our relationship with American companies is totally balanced.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,200 ✭✭✭eggy81


    what will happen with wages in America when the mass deportations take a grip on the labour market over there. I mean how is it going to help anyone do business there. Seems to be very poor rationale behind most of these big decisions. All based around playing to his gallery it looks like in the face of it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,924 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    If you include services the trade balance is decisively in favour of the US.

    Problem we have is Trump doesn't care about that. He only cares about manufacturing.

    No one is a mystic Meg. It may turn out not as bad as some predict but we definitely have a rockier road ahead to navigate.



  • Registered Users, Subscribers, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,803 ✭✭✭hometruths


    Apple did it essentially overnight in 2015:

    This first happened in 2015 when Ireland posted a gravity-defying 26 percent gain in GDP, the highest ever recorded in post-war Europe. Nobel-winning economist Paul Krugman dubbed it “leprechaun economics.”

    Eventually it became clear that much of that 2015 gain reflected Apple’s decision that year to shift its intellectual property assets to an Irish domicile. The IMF calculated in 2018 that a quarter of Ireland’s GDP growth could be attributed to global sales of iPhones, with other Apple units paying the Irish unit to use its IP.

    If they managed to shift the intellectual property here that quickly in 2015, why would it take any longer to shift it out of Ireland?

    https://www.politico.eu/article/ireland-gdp-growth-multinationals-misleading/



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 23,725 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Ireland have massive offshore wind power potential. We should be investing so much more in offshore wind generation, and interconnectors to sell that wind to Europe. We won't need to import any more Oil or Gas and will earn money exporting electricity to Europe.

    Saudi Arabia can build cities in the desert because they export energy. Ireland have billions worth of energy in our territorial waters that we're not taking advantage of.

    Eg, if we installed 25gw of offshore wind

    Exportable wind power

    50 TWh/year

    Avg price/MWh

    €75

    Estimated annual revenue

    €3.75 billion

    Chomsky(2017) on the Republican party

    "Has there ever been an organisation in human history that is dedicated, with such commitment, to the destruction of organised human life on Earth?"



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,924 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    They need the circumstances to be right though.

    Bottom line is if their IP parking in Ireland continues to make them more money than any alternative then nothing will change.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 31,974 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Individual companies can do it relatively quickly. There is no reason for them to do it now, and there won't be any tomorrow. There is next to nothing Trump's administration can do to make them want to.

    A huge change in the tax regime, passed by a razor-narrow Congress, could do it but that is what won't happen overnight. And even if it did happen in the future, there is no guarantee that things would flow en masse immediately because companies do not like the kind of rampant uncertainty you see in the US at the moment.



  • Registered Users, Subscribers, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,803 ✭✭✭hometruths




  • Registered Users, Subscribers, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,803 ✭✭✭hometruths


    10 individual companies that can do it relatively quickly pay almost half of corporation tax.

    We introduced the tax change that attracted the IP in the first place relatively quickly.

    I just don't see how the US is unable to do the same relatively quickly if they wish to do so.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,213 ✭✭✭greenfield21


    When will see a first draft of Trumps "big beautiful bill" that Mike Johnson is working on🤣 it might be in there.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 13,190 ✭✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    We had so much FDI tax money and wasted it. Our public services are still terrible. We will regret the waste.

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth house?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,213 ✭✭✭greenfield21


    The beautiful bill will be ready in May, that will be the only chance Trump will get to change the tax code imo



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 31,974 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Because such large changes in the tax code are inherently harder and a longer process in the US than in Ireland and far harder to get through Congress, especially when they have such a tiny majority. Could they do it? yeah, but it is not on the horizon at all no matter how much Trump and his acolytes bloviate about it.

    Something could be done in the next budget in October, but if so we will know well before then that it is on the cards. It is also unclear exactly what scale of measures would be needed to reverse the effect. The political instability in the US is hardly going to help their case.

    There are already countries with lower CT rates than Ireland, and have been for some time even in the EU, but that hasn't caused a flood of movement out of the country either.

    I am not blind to the risks, but it is incorrect to speak of it as if it is something either a) that Trump can do anything about unilaterally or b) something that will happen imminently.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 23,725 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    If these companies want to keep selling products into the EU, they won't take sides in the upcoming trade war.

    Chomsky(2017) on the Republican party

    "Has there ever been an organisation in human history that is dedicated, with such commitment, to the destruction of organised human life on Earth?"



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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 31,974 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    And they're far more focused on their deficit exploding m/billionaire tax cuts then they are about adjusting CT policy at the moment.



  • Registered Users, Subscribers, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,803 ✭✭✭hometruths


    Once again the CT rates are not the issue here, it is the capital allowances on the intangibles.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 31,974 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    It's all controlled by Congress and the same logic applies.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 727 ✭✭✭engineerws




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 23,725 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    The Cato institute are funded by oil gas and coal. They assume subsidies are required, but then ignore any multiplier effect or other benefits from state investments *state is baaaad mkaay

    But yes, the revenue would exceed the total amount of capex and opex.

    We would actually save some money by not having to pay so much money in Oil and Gas subsidies that have zero benefit to our domestic economy

    Chomsky(2017) on the Republican party

    "Has there ever been an organisation in human history that is dedicated, with such commitment, to the destruction of organised human life on Earth?"



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,213 ✭✭✭greenfield21


    There is nothing to say Trump is more for billionaires than any other previous administrations. If anything it's the opposite as he is putting national interests over corporate interests which unfortunately never seems to have happened before. Usually previous presidents would have bowed down to all the pharma/tech/manufacturing lobbyists by now. It's actually a good look in that they can't seem to buy him out.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 31,974 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    If you want to believe anything he is doing is in the "national interest" suit yourself, but I think it flies in the face of all evidence and logic. Wealthier people are benefitting from his proposed tax policies far more than anyone else and to a far higher degree than under any previous administration.

    However, that isn't really the point here. The point is that adjusting the tax policies to encourage IP shift back to the US requires detailed changes to the tax code, and so far none seem forthcoming.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 727 ✭✭✭engineerws


    I'm not convinced but if carbon credits or similar could be used to make it profitable, that's great for some income.

    I know people hate some sources but maybe you could point out where the Cato institute erred in their study.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 727 ✭✭✭engineerws


    I'm not convinced but if carbon credits or similar could be used to make it profitable, that's great for some income.

    I know people hate some sources but maybe you could point out where the Cato institute erred in their study.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 23,725 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Their study failed to account for existing Fossil fuel subsidies while criticising Offshore energy for requiring subsidies

    The article uses statistical framing and selective omission to make offshore wind seem less viable than legacy energy sources. The key misleading tactic is the failure to provide an apples-to-apples comparison by ignoring subsidies, externalities, and fossil fuel support mechanisms that tilt the playing field.

    Chomsky(2017) on the Republican party

    "Has there ever been an organisation in human history that is dedicated, with such commitment, to the destruction of organised human life on Earth?"



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