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Non Payment of wages due to forgetting to clock out

  • 21-03-2025 08:48AM
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 622 ✭✭✭


    Hi,

    Quite a simple scenario, which I am almost sure is not legal. My son works part time for a fast food chain, after an 8 hour shift last week he forgot to clockout, he had clocked in. This week he received a whatsapp from the shift supervisor saying he would not be paid for the shift as he had not clocked out. Apart from being petty, is this legal?



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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,774 ✭✭✭horse7


    Has he any proof of when he finished work.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,532 ✭✭✭Gusser09


    Thats insane and exploitative.

    The fast food chain will have cctv and the shift supervisor will be able to tell when he left. Scumbags



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 622 ✭✭✭jjmcclure


    I believe there was a supervisor there, and it was a closing shift so they had to lock up the store.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,335 ✭✭✭Oscar_Madison
    #MEGA MAKE EUROPE GREAT AGAIN


    I mean CCTV which no doubt exists no less the fact that the shift supervisor has admitted that he worked that day in a WhatsApp is proof he worked.
    It all depends what the employee handbook or work contract says about forgetting to clock out- is it that he won’t get paid this week- but will ultimately get paid for that day? Or is it that he has lost those wages?

    I’m not familiar with clocking in/out practices but I imagine there are established norms - I can understand a “fine” or some other penalty to ensure compliance but no wages for that day doesn’t sound like it would stand up if you took a case - but the sum involved is likely small relatively speaking it’s hard to know if you’d even get to a hearing - I certainly wouldn’t be working there again



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 622 ✭✭✭jjmcclure


    I'm not concerned about the money, more annoyed at the stance they are taking. Here is what CoPilot says:

    In Ireland, it is against the law for employers to withhold wages for hours worked, even if an employee forgets to clock in or out. Under employment law, workers are entitled to be paid for all hours they have actually worked. Employers must ensure accurate record-keeping and address clocking issues without penalizing employees.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,885 ✭✭✭cml387


    No place I have ever worked would dock wages because of a misclock, there's be uproar. They are tryin it on, or the supervisor is clueless.

    Maybe thread is more suitable for "Work Problems", though.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,660 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    Why would anyone accept a "shift supervisors" word on this. Surely there is an easily contactable higher up in store.

    Any payroll system I ever worked with only myself as the manager could manually fix a mis-clock. If you clock in and not out the auto payroll system wouldn't pay you unless I edited the clock out before the payday.

    A shift supervisor wouldn't have a clue how these things worked anywhere I worked.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,335 ✭✭✭Oscar_Madison
    #MEGA MAKE EUROPE GREAT AGAIN


    It’s hardly the first time ever this has happened- a retro payment in next payday is all that’s required- it sounds like the supervisor is an idiot and may have a grudge against your son - let him talk to the main manager when he next works



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,885 ✭✭✭cml387


    Well I could fix misclocks as a supervisor when I was working.

    First thing Monday morning I checked the previous week's clockings, and fixed any problems.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,660 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    I suppose everywhere has a different meaning for "shift supervisor". I never worked in McDonald's but anywhere I did work the only things they would do is count the till and lock the door. Literally supervise the shift.

    I don't know anywhere that the shift supervisor would be the final word on if you were getting paid or not.



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  • Moderators, Education Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 11,367 Mod ✭✭✭✭artanevilla


    It is not legal, and it's a pretty dumb move by the supervisor to put those words in writing.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,885 ✭✭✭cml387


    Two different things.

    A simple misclock should never be the basis for non payment of wages, and may be fixable by the supervisor (or not)

    A decision not to pay wages would not be down solely to me as a supervsior



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,447 ✭✭✭AlanG


    This is completely illegal, make sure you screenshot the whatsapp message. There is no grey area here, if you work you must be paid. They would have an obligation to supervise the shift.

    Are they claiming he did not work the shift?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 83 ✭✭TerrieBootson


    The employee will get delayed payment. Wages must be paid. But also, if he didn't clock out, then the electronic system can't calculate the hours, so what happens is the wages office will go to the duty manager and ask for an amendment. Often that might mean getting paid next schedule - but he will get paid

    OP, your son is not being picked on, he is being treated as an adult



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,660 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    It wouldn't be the basis for non payment of wages.

    But the automated system would read it as a void shift and not pay for that shift. Unless of course it was picked up on and edited by the manager before the cut off date.

    As usual there's a lot we don't know. Is the supervisor saying he won't be paid because the cut off date to edit has passed ?

    Was the manager consulted ?

    Has any process been followed other than to post on Boards about it ?

    Have people screaming legal this and that ever actually lived in the real world ?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 311 ✭✭cr-07


    My guess is the manager is using this as a 'scare tactic', to ensure he doesn't forget to clock out again. The manager will more than likely update his 'hours worked' manually.

    I previously worked as a manager in McDonalds, and as mentioned above, clock in/out times can be manually changed.

    This was regularly done for all sorts of problems, such as ensuring the mandatory 'off' time between shifts is respected. For example, if someone clocked out at 00:01, and then clocked in the following morning at 07:59.

    It is definitely possible (and is done regularly) to manually input a staff members "clock out" time.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,910 ✭✭✭GerardKeating


    Depends on what the supervisor meant by "not paid".

    It might be "not paid THIS WEEK". Delaying payment to clarify/confirm the shift hours is not totally unreasonable if it's not their fault.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,964 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    The young man just needs to escalate the issue and will most likely be paid.

    As one fast food company has been named in the thread it might be best to clarify whether they are the one involved.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,032 ✭✭✭✭drunkmonkey


    In these clock in and out apps there's usually a way to request a shift adjustment. That's what he should have done when he forgot to clock out.

    It's a pain adjusting shifts when your running payroll, i'm guessing they will get paid next week but the need to start following policy of what to do when you forget to clock in or out.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 622 ✭✭✭jjmcclure




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,939 ✭✭✭✭bucketybuck


    It's quite plausible that they are sick and tired of him "forgetting" to clock out and this threat is to try and get him to cop the **** on.

    They would be better served warning him and then firing him, but not all supervisors are trained very well.

    Legally he has to be paid, but if he is going quote law at his employer it would be best to not give them any opportunity to return the favour.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 622 ✭✭✭jjmcclure




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 270 ✭✭AnnieinDundrum


    we used to have a time recording system that was so bad you could record 25 hours a day working…lots of manual interventions by the payroll department


    there should be a simple solution here and I’m sure there is but as was said above not every supervisor is going to be well trained and versed in the solutions.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,885 ✭✭✭cml387


    Making sure people are paid properly should be a major priority for any supervisor. People do not turn up for work for the good of their health.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,663 ✭✭✭Hoboo




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,660 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    Pay is most likely way beyond the remit of a "shift supervisor" in hospitality. They are usually one very small step up from the staff they are supervising.

    Which is why I asked earlier has the OP's child spoken to the actual manager ?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,885 ✭✭✭cml387


    Burger King. I would imagine they would have some documentation, especially over hygiene.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,885 ✭✭✭cml387


    We were all young and innocent once.

    We are not entitled to get more information,but it might help other people in a smilar situation.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,506 ✭✭✭Pauliedragon


    I was just about type this. The supervisor has gone way above their position saying something like that and I assume would be in big trouble themselves from higher up for sending such a message. Someone has clearly been given a bit of responsibility and now think they are the king of the place.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,660 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    Or it's that we don't have a clue what was said on the WhatsApp chat. This is starting to look like on of those typical Boards stories where we are not getting a lot of relevant info.



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