Nimbyism and value of houses.

I read that article before and it isn't a different mindset it is the history. They have the housing stock in public hands for about a century.

I really never believed the claims of ghetto's created by lack of amenities. There were mistakes made but not that. Ballymun is a very good example. It had all the amenities and international award winning designs, library, schools, pool,pub, shopping centre, football fields etc… They had plenty of transport too. What happened was the residents knew if they kept complaining they could be offered a house instead. So the families moved out and nobody on the housing list wanted them flats so they went down the list and down till the least desirable people moved in which was mostly single men with addiction, mental health and other issues. That made it a ghetto not a lack of facilities. The greed of entitlement was the main driver.

Do you think there bust about to happen? Look back over the price of property and you will see we don't have much of a boom bust cycle for property other than 2007. We are in a totally different situation to then and need to build 50,000 properties a year for 5-10 years just to keep up with demand. We had lots of empty property in 2007

This isn't a dig at you in particular, rather it's using your comment as an example of the chronic lack of understanding of inflation and relative costs that is often trotted out in the "Things were cheaper back then"

Aside from pointing out the differences in actual income, interest rates and credit availability. I'll use your example of

"And for the love of God, do something about planning and regulations, there's modern houses built for 300K that have half the comfort, space and quality of build of houses built 50/60 years ago for 30K."

Using the CPI inflation calculator from the CSO,

https://visual.cso.ie/?body=entity/cpicalculator

and we'll split the difference on your 50/60 years ago to a round 55yrs. So to March 1970. €30000 spend in March 1970, equates to €497819.10 today.

Yes inflation has eaten away at the apparent value of the money spent, but? Do you seriously believe that there were masses of people being approved for the equivalent of half a million euro home loans? Or that those people didn't scrimp, save and go short to afford those homes?

We need social housing for people on low Income or people on disability . The flats in ballymun were neglected. Eg the lifts mostly did not work . imagine living on floor 12 and having to walk up to your flat .people were happy to live in the 7 storey units . There were plenty of facilities and art center library shops there were also shop vans near each block and plenty of green spaces around them

IIf you are worried about new building then don't buy near an empty green field . We need more building housing of all kinds including social housing .

No truer words spoken than that last line indeed. If you see an empty field, run a mile 😂

I agree with you regarding the need for coherent and fit for purpose regulation. That doesn't IMO mean that we need to drop standards. Indeed moving to better energy efficiency in both electrical installation and insulation will save home owners and tenants money in the course of their residency. Very few materials are legally specified for use and the ones that are forbidden are generally done so for very valid reasons.

There are certainly savings that can be made in material costs, notionally at least by adjusting VAT. The issue with that? Is that much like the ridiculous implementation of grants in Ireland, is that the suppliers will just raise the material price by whatever the VAT reduction or Grant award is and keep the price at par for the customers whilst pocketing the grant as an increase in operating margin.

I'm of the opinion that one of the greatest achievements of post independence Ireland was the slum clearances and the building of corporation estates between the 30's and 50's. The slow down in local authority building from the 1980s and the seller off of housing stock without replacement, is a failure of government.

It is a failure that can be overcome with willpower, a Govt building agency and a return to local authority building. The adoption of a model already shown to be failing in the UK, in Housing Authorities, fragments supply and shifts responsibility for housing over to charities and away from government. It is a prime example of beaks to the through. It creates illusory "employment" without actually doing much to create additional supply nor indeed improving standards in existing housing stock.

Theres is definitely a difference in cultural mindset. Perhaps causes by culture, but these been one scandal after another in Ireland from building standards, materials, banking, Celtic tiger, rogue developers all playing into the crisis.

Getto created all the time. Theres well known anti social hot spots in new estates. They are repeating the mistakes of old. We have a role for mixing public and private and it's being circumvented by developers.

We had a construction recession in the 90s. Lots of empty properties then. I'm sure there were others.

We have modern home that are literally crumbling. No fire standards, sloppy insulation and built on a flood plain. But it's new so it must be better.

Lack of allocated parking also. Always a point of conflict. Or adequate parking.

Issues and objections to planning happen in urban and rural areas.

I know of quite a few attempts at putting in late bars and access to same visa residential areas including cul de sac yes.

You've answered the question by not answering via deflection. Iceberg what iceberg.

There is more to Ballymun simply being neglected. As I already mentioned many of the families living there insisted on moving out because they wanted a 3bed house with front and back gardens and others refused. This lead to the last people on the council lists to be housed there and they were mostly adult males with issues. They had 3 bed flats with individual tenants. The place was originally meant to have a concierge/security person but the corporation cheaped out which meant people could get in and out easily. The residents were vandalising the lifts intentionally so with so few people living in them and constant maintenance issues due to vandalism. It wasn't like they just smashed up the inside of the lift, they destroyed the door on each floor and broke the mechanisms. The tenants basically destroyed the place.

I don't know if you ever were in the houses or towers in Ballymun but they weren't bad designs. The flats were big with underfloor heating.

It is not as simple as don't buy near a green field in Dublin. They are knocking down existing property and then building large apartment blocks instead. Look at Santry and see how it suddenly has 3 large blocks with more coming. A single cottage near me was knocked and 30 block apartment is on it. There is 50 apartments where one house stood. Clontarf has had a huge surge in houses built with many just going in the grounds of older houses. Tons of mews being built along lanes in the area.

Lots of building are being built in haste with a lack of overall planning and we are getting a lot very boring architecture. Then people just complain. Like the issue with EV chargers in Adamstown, how they were going to plan for EV charges that didn't exist before? There is an element of future proofing but parking was made communal to slow the number of cars by design.

You are making a claim of successful new development late bars and night clubs. Similarly you are claiming successful urban pig farms.

It's not for me to prove your claims, and I'm genuinely curious as to where and when these permissions were granted. I'm even more curious to see where as I'd like to peruse any conditions that were attached to either the publicans license or the dancing license.

Knowing of many Cul De sacs that were opened doesn't really address my points, unless I've missed where you addressed the questions I asked relating to a new effort to do so?

"What likelihood would you ascribe to such a development being permitted in an area where there's no through point to point need? That is already subject to traffic alleviation measures? And that is served by multiple bus stops and cycle lanes with an entire slew of "new" cycle lanes incoming along with whatever bus connects brings."

As for the "published disputes with pig farms and local residents"? How many are in relation to new pig farms built in urban residential areas?

No it isn't, you read my description of my area and asked how I'd feel about one being opened near my home. As you did with late bar or night club and traffic being routed down my Cul De sac.

So have you any info on those new development Night Clubs or Late Bars in residential areas? As I genuinely want to review their license conditions, let alone their planning.

Or do you have some other effort at hyperbole to run with 1st?

So no? You don't have any link to those successful residential new development pubs and nightclubs? You are engaging in hyperbole, or if you'd prefer, given you've been asked a few times for examples of your claim, unsubstantiated bullshit? (I'll happily stand corrected when you post those examples).

As for getting a whiff of I'm alright jack? I'm not the one seeking reasons spurious or otherwise to to object to local development in my area.

Weird that you took my saying

A local councillor recently started trying to gain support for an objection to a planned street/road being built to link the planned new train station in Moyross with Woodview and on to TUS (LIT) , Thomond Park and Caherdavin. I was heartened at the amount of people who gave her short shrift.

Or

Or is it an attempt at reductio to just see how much imposition I'd take before I decide that no, others shouldn't have the opportunity to live as comfortably as I?

Many folk want better for their neighbours, even if we don't actually know them yet.

As examples that I may be considering I specifically said I'm happy to have my locale built up even further. Is there a wont in your understanding? Or did you just not read the post?

Now, those were part of my pre-purchase considerations. Yet, when it comes to NIMBYism, I fully support the development, densification and better utilisation of my local area. Both in terms of better accommodation options and better public spaces.

I want more in my backyard, better transport, better housing that meets demand and meets needs in more than just bed count. Do I care about my home's value? Yes, a little bit honestly, I care more that I have good neighbours and a sense of community.

Or did you ignore that too in your effort to bring up those night clubs, bars, roads and pig farms as some kind of gotcha?

You're the one who introduced pig farms, after reading a post that makes it patently obvious I live in an urban area. Your creation, not mine.

Similarly with your claims of new development Night Clubs & Late Bars in residential areas. Have you any examples for the thread to review?

Or are you just going to carry with whatever it is you are trying to do?

Forensically research? Is that what reading a post you clicked "quote" on and chose to reply to amounts to these days?

The 1st 2 paragraphs of the post you quoted in your 1st reply to me.

I bought our home 20yrs ago this month. I purchased a house on what was then (and still is) a very settled estate, over 20yrs old at the time. It was close to bus stops, a park, schools and even 3rd level education.

I also bought it knowing that when Limerick eventually built a ring road on its Northside? That my house would be inside it. I didn't know the route, but being local there were only a few places they could run the road.

Do you just have a look at every 2nd word, scroll your mouse wheel until it stops and then decide to reply to posts you don't read?

Serious question, if you don't read what you choose to reply to? Or offer anything to support claims you repeatedly make on a thread? What are actually posting for? It's pretty clear by your own admission that you don't read what you deign to reply to. Nor do you do anything to ground your claims in evidence.

Is it an exercise in time wasting? Or do you have some other reason for it.

And still no examples of the new development late bars or night clubs or any other of the spurious examples you introduced to the thread? I suppose it does make clear what stock others should pay your posts. The same as your own, none.

A thread on boards, with all due respect could be written by a crank 😉 someone with an axe to grind or who'll just post rubbish and the most recent is 13yrs old.

Those aren't planning decisions or enforcement orders. It also appears the pub in question is Smithfield which was a mixed use urban almost city centre development. Not residential, or did you not read that thread either?

Similarly, the piggery thread is another one that I'd hazard you found after a Scrabble and didn't read. It's rural and Poor Uncle Tom does a great job of explaining the situation regarding the stock numbers and the ABP referral.

And

Limerick has a ring road who knew…

Well, anybody who read the 1st post of mine you quoted 😉 albeit it'll be a while yet before it's finished. Didn't even need to be forensic, a quick skim and there it is 😁

Look,I apologise for the snippiness on my part but it's fairly clear you hadn't read the initial post you quoted, took an opinion of what I said that was opposite to what was actually said and thenjust kept doubling down, rather than just holding your hands up and admit even the possibility of a mistake. Not a healthy way to go through life. Not that I think it's at all what you're like IRL 👍

**Edit**

To address your addition of the cul de sac link. Again, that isn't planning permission, an enforcement order or even a county development plan. It's a NIMBY story of people objecting to housing.

I'll do you the service of linking the planning application, the objection and the ABP review for anyone who wants to have something other than a little outrage for dinner.

Any opinion yourself after looking at the planning documents as to what should happen?