Russia-Ukraine War (continuing)

Here is the READOUT of the convo from the White House:

Ukraine must be hurting Russia with it's long range strikes on oil depots using home grown drones. Putin only too happy now to offer a ceasefire on energy targets.

So does this mean

for Ukraine.

Them agreeing to a ceasefire on these terms alters the military balance at least somewhat in Russia's favour. And no guarantee at all it'll lead anywhere…

This is very true

Of course they are! Early on the Russians said that the strikes on the oil were insignificant and could be easily repaired. A lie!

I think we have to accept Donald Putin and Vlad trump are in complete agreement.

Yeah seems like Putin is looking for a pause in the arenas Russia is not doing so well in and to continue fighting to their strengths where his military is well resourced vs Ukraine and where they are having success (i.e. attacks at the front with Russian air power advantage, unlimited numbers of mass produced cheap short range drones from the friends in China, artillery, missiles and expendable [from Russian pov] shock troops from NK).

Well unfortunately, if that's what Putin wants, no doubt pressure will now be applied to Ukraine by the Americans to acceed to it if they are reluctant.

I have been wondering will we see some of the NK troops being moved from Kursk for some attacks inside Ukraine proper now also.

It’s a terrible deal and it’s Putin calling all the shots.

Ukraine needs to bite the bullet and forget about America.

I suppose it's hard to take any sort of polling/ research seriously since the invasion (especially if put out by the Russians) but I was wondering with regard to the population of the Donbass region.. where does one go to get an indication of the desire of the population in terms of their preference to be part of Russia or to remain part of Ukraine? Is there any research that can be relied upon?

The Donbass has been attacked by putin's terrorists since 2014 so I don't think it is possible for a fair poll to be taken in the area. Lots of the people most afraid of being annexed by putin's terrorist state will have fled to other places and more will have been indiscriminately killed by putin's terrorists as they demolished cities, town and villages. Others will have become victims of targeted murder once the armed forces of Ukraine were pushed out of parts of the Donbas as was revealed had happened when other parts of Ukraine were liberated from puin's terrorists. Also seen reports of forced conscription into moskovyte armed forces and deportation to russia from Donbas. All of these factors and the very real fear of reprisals by moskovyte authorities to answers that would not favour their dear leader putin make a joke of the concept of a fair poll in annexed territories of Ukraine.

Some reports are saying a ceasefire deal has been agreed. Surely not if Ukraine hasn't agreed? Zelensky is reported to have said any negotiations without Ukraine are pointless.

it's impossible to get a real gauge, all you can tell for sure is that it would now (artifically) skew more in Russia's favour than would have previously been the case.

look at Crimea. given how many people have had to flee, plus the plantation job Russia have done on it since 2014, any vote now would be far more 'pro-Russia' than before. but the vote would be meaningless, as it's obviously been reduced to bullshit by Russia's actions.

The energy infrastructure ceasefire most definitely favours Russia. All of us could see that the Ukrainians have been hitting much more energy targets in Russia lately than the Russians have been hitting in Ukraine. I suppose Zelensky agrees to it, albite under some duress from the Americans.

Is this going to be the format of the talks from now on: The Russians and the Americans agree something and it's passed by the Ukrainians as a fait accompli?

Also the EU and the "coalition of the willing" frozen out, unwilling or unable to go against their dominant American "ally".

……………

He just sees the world in terms of US, Russia, and China. That’s it . Everyone else get f**ked. . She mentioned his relationship with Zelensky he did not even acknowledge him.

He just sees Europe and Zelensky as a threat pushing Russia and China closer together.
He wants to stop that.
where does Europe really stand in all of this???
Does he really honestly think Russia is more important than Europe???
In terms of natural resources and nukes it is.
In terms of Human capital , culture and economics and consumption Russia is a minnow in comparison to Europe.

All of this comes down to - through all the bullshit from Trump is that America is fcuked. They are essentially bankrupt - imagine paying 1 trillion dollars a year to service debt. The US has 3 main "enemies" in the world. China, Russia and Iran. Now the US will forever back Israel to the hilt, why? It has the ability and airpower to flatten Iran should the need ever arise. The US needs Europe to counter balance Russia (which is ironic, as one of the reasons that the US previously never wanted a strong military in Europe was so there would be no "misunderstandings" between Europe and Russia) - hence the big push for Europe to handle its own security. Why? The US cant afford it anymore and in China they face for the first time since 1783 a "foe" they are not guaranteed to defeat in open combat or defeat economically and I think that scares them.

So yes, Trump and the Americans will fcuk Ukraine over if it means they can concentrate on China.