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A bit more detail at the BBC live feed page on this call between putin / trump:
https://www.bbc.com/news/live/c3e4xzd8qq8t?post=asset%3Abf73f2ed-c5ff-4d34-a92d-c162ce0be4a3#post
Ukraine must be hurting Russia with it's long range strikes on oil depots using home grown drones. Putin only too happy now to offer a ceasefire on energy targets.
So a while kind of nothing, except Russia gets to stop Ukraine hurting them with airstrikes on their depots
So does this mean
for Ukraine.
Them agreeing to a ceasefire on these terms alters the military balance at least somewhat in Russia's favour. And no guarantee at all it'll lead anywhere…
Hopefully Ukraine rightly tells them to **** off and keeps hammering them
This is very true
This is how I'd read it. Putin may think he's being coy but he just tipped his hand. The Ukrainian strikes on their oil refineries are clearly hurting Putin very badly.
They should immediately ramp up these strikes as quickly and as much as possible with drones and their newly minted cruise missiles.
Of course they are! Early on the Russians said that the strikes on the oil were insignificant and could be easily repaired. A lie!
I think we have to accept Donald Putin and Vlad trump are in complete agreement.
Lol
Yeah seems like Putin is looking for a pause in the arenas Russia is not doing so well in and to continue fighting to their strengths where his military is well resourced vs Ukraine and where they are having success (i.e. attacks at the front with Russian air power advantage, unlimited numbers of mass produced cheap short range drones from the friends in China, artillery, missiles and expendable [from Russian pov] shock troops from NK).
Well unfortunately, if that's what Putin wants, no doubt pressure will now be applied to Ukraine by the Americans to acceed to it if they are reluctant.
I have been wondering will we see some of the NK troops being moved from Kursk for some attacks inside Ukraine proper now also.
Exactly. Who here speaks English most days, watches premier league football and read shakespeare plays for the leaving cert (possibly also for fun)? How many of them want to rejoin the UK?
It’s a terrible deal and it’s Putin calling all the shots.
Ukraine needs to bite the bullet and forget about America.
Ukraine can continue to bombing Russian infrastructure while making positive noises about the Putin/Trump chat as they weren't consulted.
What's Trump going to do, send Putin reinforcements?
Ukraine probably already knew starlink was always compromised but if it suits them for the Russians to think they have a reprieve then good.
I suppose it's hard to take any sort of polling/ research seriously since the invasion (especially if put out by the Russians) but I was wondering with regard to the population of the Donbass region.. where does one go to get an indication of the desire of the population in terms of their preference to be part of Russia or to remain part of Ukraine? Is there any research that can be relied upon?
Then you are going to be disappointed. The US miltary does not decide what policies are "acceptable" to it and the President does not serve at its pleasure. The toughest times are where principles must be protected the most forcefully. I doubt you would agree to restrictions on free speech during a time of turmoil, or specifically anti-islam legislation after an Isis attack. The subordination of the miltary to the civilian processes is fundamental to the nature of the US government and, by the way, things like "coups" are not a process defined in the Constitution the military serves.
If the President is on a course detrimental to the US, Congress can impeach him. Thus far there is no indication that such a process is likely to fail, nor that the Congressfolk in question are not themselves accountable to their constituents.
The Donbass has been attacked by putin's terrorists since 2014 so I don't think it is possible for a fair poll to be taken in the area. Lots of the people most afraid of being annexed by putin's terrorist state will have fled to other places and more will have been indiscriminately killed by putin's terrorists as they demolished cities, town and villages. Others will have become victims of targeted murder once the armed forces of Ukraine were pushed out of parts of the Donbas as was revealed had happened when other parts of Ukraine were liberated from puin's terrorists. Also seen reports of forced conscription into moskovyte armed forces and deportation to russia from Donbas. All of these factors and the very real fear of reprisals by moskovyte authorities to answers that would not favour their dear leader putin make a joke of the concept of a fair poll in annexed territories of Ukraine.
“I suppose it's hard to take any sort of polling/ research seriously since the invasion (especially if put out by the Russians) but I was wondering with regard to the population of the Donbass region.. where does one go to get an indication of the desire of the population in terms of their preference to be part of Russia or to remain part of Ukraine? Is there any research that can be relied upon?”
Pretty simple. Include the vote of all those who have been forcibly removed from the region.
Some reports are saying a ceasefire deal has been agreed. Surely not if Ukraine hasn't agreed? Zelensky is reported to have said any negotiations without Ukraine are pointless.
Putin needs a pause to bring in half a million North Koreans
it's impossible to get a real gauge, all you can tell for sure is that it would now (artifically) skew more in Russia's favour than would have previously been the case.
look at Crimea. given how many people have had to flee, plus the plantation job Russia have done on it since 2014, any vote now would be far more 'pro-Russia' than before. but the vote would be meaningless, as it's obviously been reduced to bullshit by Russia's actions.
In case someone actually believed Russia would stop attacking civilian targets.
The energy infrastructure ceasefire most definitely favours Russia. All of us could see that the Ukrainians have been hitting much more energy targets in Russia lately than the Russians have been hitting in Ukraine. I suppose Zelensky agrees to it, albite under some duress from the Americans.
Is this going to be the format of the talks from now on: The Russians and the Americans agree something and it's passed by the Ukrainians as a fait accompli?
Also the EU and the "coalition of the willing" frozen out, unwilling or unable to go against their dominant American "ally".
So much for the energy ceasefire
……………
Are you concerned? Just asking questions?
He just sees the world in terms of US, Russia, and China. That’s it . Everyone else get f**ked. . She mentioned his relationship with Zelensky he did not even acknowledge him.
He just sees Europe and Zelensky as a threat pushing Russia and China closer together. He wants to stop that. where does Europe really stand in all of this??? Does he really honestly think Russia is more important than Europe??? In terms of natural resources and nukes it is. In terms of Human capital , culture and economics and consumption Russia is a minnow in comparison to Europe.
Trump is going to leave a lasting impression on the world order. Anyone thinking we can just wait him out and go back to business as usual in 2028 forget about it. We are gone way past that. We had a brief window with Biden but the Global world order utterly failed to reassert itself in that time . It’s a new world now defined by geopolitical might. He wants full control of North America as well from Panama to Greenland. Much easier stop migrants and control security at the narrow isthmus of Panama than the endless deserts of the Mexican border. Panama has replaced the Wall. He doesn’t mention the wall anymore.
All of this comes down to - through all the bullshit from Trump is that America is fcuked. They are essentially bankrupt - imagine paying 1 trillion dollars a year to service debt. The US has 3 main "enemies" in the world. China, Russia and Iran. Now the US will forever back Israel to the hilt, why? It has the ability and airpower to flatten Iran should the need ever arise. The US needs Europe to counter balance Russia (which is ironic, as one of the reasons that the US previously never wanted a strong military in Europe was so there would be no "misunderstandings" between Europe and Russia) - hence the big push for Europe to handle its own security. Why? The US cant afford it anymore and in China they face for the first time since 1783 a "foe" they are not guaranteed to defeat in open combat or defeat economically and I think that scares them.
So yes, Trump and the Americans will fcuk Ukraine over if it means they can concentrate on China.
can’t face China alone if alienates and is no longer friendly with Europe, Canada, Australia and Mexico and dozens of other countries who it will need for trade and whom like good allies came to help US when article 5 was triggered (which included Ukraine too btw) when US needed help
Should Europe have spent more of defence? Yes
Did Trump go about undoing 80 years of relationships with closest allies and trading partners the wrong way? Absolutely
It hasn’t sunk in yet that the last month is bigger than Brexit and will have many many more negative implications for US itself
Tho the US markets have been ringing alarm bells for weeks now, and they are very forward looking. In few months all of this will trickle down into a deep US recession and unemployment spike and inflation and rate rises which will only make the US debt situation worse not better.
All while Russia and China laugh as they couldn’t have imagined the American leadership to ever be so **** stupid
We now have Trump saying “Recession will be worth it” ffs
The recession will be worth it: for the billionaire class who'll become oligarchs (if they haven't already) in the mass sell off of assets (both public and private) that this Trump-made recession will result in. Ordinary Americans are going to suffer in ways they've only seen on CNN until now.
@Manic Moran "dissapointed" is the perfect word. As a child of the 80's I grew up with American propoganda, the interviews with the survivors before and after each episode of Band of Brothers brought a tear to my eye. The cracks in the veneer of the "Land of the Free and the Home of the Brave" started to show with the election of George W Bush but by electing Trump a second time, America has demonstrated itself to be the "Land of the Stupid and Home of the Racist". It is extremely dissapointing. To hear the US Military coming out with the "Just following orders" trope as their commander in chief wages war on the values the US has always claimed to stand for is beyond dissapointing. To walk around the American Cemetary in Normandy in the knowledge that those men gave their lives for a country that's begun to ape the regime they died fighting is heart-breaking tbh.
