Hamas strike on Israel - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

Your getting both pathetic and abusive now.

Abusive? You're hair trigger labelling of others as "antisimitic" and, have engaged in nothing short abusive comments to things you don't like but cannot/will not discuss . "childish/ pathetic,/ angry fool" (see your lines below)….Ironic, no? Or just because you don't like it you can react differently?

I do of course realise that you are implying that I am referring to a Nazi style 'Final Solution'.

Now you realise it. Were you not one of the posters throwing about the phrase "The mask has slipped"……

You wrote it. You meant it. At least stand over what we can all see of you.

And, as someone who has been to Auschwitz Birkenau and have seen what gas chambers and concentration camps look like,

As have I. It doesn't add weight to your nonsense. P.S. Dachau is also worth a visit if you're in Munich although it's much smaller.

I can only say you are a very pathetic, angry fool to make such a scummy comment.

What was the first line of your most recent post again…something about being abusive.

I'll take that line and the quoted one above in the same vein as your thoughts on the current situation in Israel: One rule for you, different rule for me.

You, predictably, completly ignore my point on the 2006 electio result. So I'll make it even more clear.

I addressed it a number of times.

Also if you’re going to use those polls in reference to one side, why not the other? E.g. 40% of Israeli Jews are ok with the response with a further 35% saying they haven’t gone far enough in their military response; what is that but wanton bloodlust?
I posted and referenced a video from Israel’s peace prize nominee which demonstrates clearly repugnant views and has been acted upon for generations yet you continue to ignore it as it’s content would show your hypocrisy and general ignorance to anything but your skewed and blinkered views.

Just becasue there hasn't been an election in 20 years,doesn't mean that there haven't been polls that show that Hamas is hugely popular.

You concentrate on the absence of election in order to deflect from the reality that Hamas, a terrorist organisation, are the most popular political party in Gaza, and the sad reality that they could easily win an election.

You need to go in to the reasons as to why there hasn't been an election and what has created the scenario to give risse to a group like Hamas being popular.

Question - were those polls pre or post Oct'23?

This poll puts them at 37%. Shocking support for an Islamic Jihadist party.

In that region given their history and how the enclave has been set up to run, I'm not surprised. But that't the bit you continue to ignore. Groups and that kind of thinking don't just create themselves in isolation.

https://www.pcpsr.org/en/node/99

I don't know what this is supposed to show, the link doesn't work.

37%. Of. The. Gaza. Population. Will. vote. for Hamas. Tomorrow.

Did i do it right? I hope i did. It was so impressive when you did it. Made you look so serious, not like a child at all.

So you read that bit of my posts. Just checking. (What was the first line of your post above again…never mind.) But again you really on that statistic without looking at the historical situation of Gaza. You seem to be trying to equate our standards and civil rights to be the same in Gaza.

Keegan is just one of many Historians with their own opinion.

For instance, historian S.P. MacKenzie describes Keegan's 1997 Revolutionary Armies in the Modern Era: A Revisionist Approach as "too flawed to be recommended as an undergraduate text".

But you still didn't read the quote; you just found someone else who didn't like it. Good stuff. Is S.P. Mackenzie one of many historians with their own opinions as well or is it just because he'll suffice as it's (again) a simplistic rebuttal (granted it's without substance but we'll say rebuttal for now)

historian S.P. MacKenzie describes Keegan'

Also, if you're going to rebuke people and say silly things like "copying and pasting from wikipedia doesn't enhace your arguement" then it's best not to leave wikipedia links in the bit you yourself quote.

It's also arguable that they are not a 'traditional' terrorist organisation anyway.

So now we're going to move the goalpost rather than deal with the facts.

They're an Islamic JIhadist group. They derive the source of their justification from purely religious fanatism. Sinwar wasn't even a Palestinain nationalist. He just wanted to destroy the state of Israel.

Close but what else do they derive their ire from…

Was Is Israel. Lovely spot. Great People. Great country. Would go back again in a heartbeat.

Relative to…?

You ignore the fact he has been been in power for 17 years out of the last 29 years. He has been returned to power for many of those years due to his popularity among Israelis irrespective of how the current government came into formation.

If you are going to criticise Palestinians for making bad choices, then be consistent. What excuse do Israelis have - since you admit they were free to vote for other people? Also Bibi has been written off so many times before only to defy the odds so I would be sceptical of anyone dismissing his chances of returning to power again. As for Hamas it's hard to gauge what their actual level of support , since anyone who has protested against their rule has been dealt with harshly.

Close but what else do they derive their ire from?

Absolute nilhistic hatred of Jews and their desire to eradicate the state of Jews from the face of the earth.

Nothing to do with the state of Israel, allthough you'll deny that.

Hundreds of men woman and kids blown up and burnt in their tents and living in the rubble, believing they were safe now ,I.D.F. are murdering scum who will say when challenged WE WERE ONLY FOLLOWING ORDERS. 🤔

I’m not excusing the part Hamas have played in this conflict , but surely people can recognise that BiBi is nothing different to the Serbian leader Slob in the Balkans war .
My enduring memory of this is Israelis having a beer fuelled party as Palestine was bombed back to the dark ages .

And all because Donald has his eyes on a Mediterranean resort .

Be in no doubt that regardless of political aspirations this is nothing more than a land grab

What are you talking about? Hamas is a fighting force again after 2 weeks of zero aid and ceasefire - that's your justification? This is your response to my post which was mainly about the killing of 174 children? Seriously.

People are just refusing to accept that there's simply no scenario where Israel are going to accept Hamas as the group controlling Gaza.

That leaves two options on the table. Either Hamas ends the war and accepts exile, or else fighting starts again and they are forced out.

The ball has always been in Hamas' court, they can stop the fighting at any point and negotiate their surrender.

That's precisely what Hamas have done - they have laid out terms:

1. All hostages will be released
2. Hamas will not take any part in Gaza - politically or militarily

In return, Israel will cease hostilities and return agreed Palestinian prisoners/detainees

That's it. That's the deal.

Israel have reneged on it for political reasons as previously posted. And have recommenced the bombing of Gaza and as alleged War Criminal #1 has stated "the strikes are only the beginning".

That's simplistic nonsense. The hostages were being released. Netanyahu broke the ceasefire. He refused to negotiate. He is putting the remaining hostages in danger. Hamas are no longer a fighting force. Gaza is utterly destroyed. The very one sided war enables him to cling to power. And remember, there are engagement rules that must be followed during a war, even for Palestinians. Take off the blinkers.

From October 8th it was clear that only the surrender of Hamas will bring peace.

I saw an article yesterday where Hamas leaders were complaining that Israel was trying to force their surrender. What did they truly expect?

Once again, Hamas will retreat into anonymity, hide under the skirts of women with children, cower in their tunnels and bring destruction raining down on their own people.

Look back to WW2. The Japanese Emperor realised that the continuation of the government of Japan would lead to the destruction of the country so he put the people before the government and surrendered. Time for Hamas to do the same.

It's funny isn't it. Israel yesterday launched the worst attack since October 7th and we still have lads on here defending them.

I've seen more toddlers with their limbs blown off over the past 24 hours but its the two women spitting at a couple of Israelis that's the egregious thing.

I'll be honest - I am not easily shocked but I am struggling to comprehend how cold people can be about Gaza. I want to understand it but some posters never answer questions.

It just doesn't give you the answer you want to hear. I'm sorry, Hamas aren't the good guys and the "poor" gazans aren't all innocent.

The lack of empathy for the innocent Gazans being killed is not shocking. It's been evident since the first day of bombing that there is no ceiling on the amount of civilians that be killed in the minds of some Israel supporters here as long as Hamas are removed. I doubt the posters that support this position would post this way on any other conflict in the world at the moment.

The fundamental rule of international humanitarian law in conflict is that all parties must distinguish, at all times, between combatants and civilians. Civilians and civilian objects must never be the target of attack; parties may only target combatants and military objectives.

It is not simply enough to claim that civilians are not the target of the attack; international humanitarian law requires that the parties to the conflict must take all feasible precautions to minimise harm to civilians and civilian objects.

Simple steps...do you agree with above? Yes or No. If Yes, what went wrong? What was the military objective?

I don't expect an answer of course. And vanishing act.