M28 - Cork to Ringaskiddy [under construction; 2028 completion]

Slightly off topic on M28 but is it correct to say that the refusal of the Planning application by ABP for Lidl's planned relocation into the circus field has somewhat torpedoed the proposed Carrigaline public realm works?

I wouldn't agree with this synopsis. The TPREP was broken into multiple sections and section 1A (Main street and the North-South cycle artery) are not alone going ahead unimpacted, but are specifically bounded such that Lidl's current property has no way of impacting them. So the overall works have not been torpedoed and cannot be. So that's positive.

So that's:

The Main Street short-perm project progressing OK.

The inner Western Relief Road short term project complete.

The Carrigaline to Passage West Cycleway progressing OK.

The Carrigaline to Crosshaven greenway short-term project is the only one that could be impacted from what I see, and the land take there should be very small, I really don't see how Lidl could impact it any way at all.

TLDR, no I don't think that's correct to say that the ABP refusal has any real impact on the TPREP.

No wonder it's car dependent the bus service is brutal and that's being polite. 220(x) is still a disaster. I have regular appointments in Bishopstown. If my appointment is 12pm I'm at the bus stop in Carrigaline no later than 10.30am.

Dead right. Well put

I don't know too much about it, but the car park being made into a park is being pursued separately to the rest of the TPREP. They insulated it from the TPREP by saying that main street bus lane, crosshaven road access changes and church hill will progress regardless, they're a priority.

They have by 2028: Main Street, Western Relief Road, Full Pedestrian and Cycle Network, Carrigaline to Crosshaven Greenway, Carrigaline to Passage West Greenway (the one that caused all the uproar). All shown in black below

Here's what's already approved for the road junction at Aldi: you can see that the cycle network progresses despite the car park / park issue.

Yeah, I've been prodding at that one for a while now. Bloomfield westbound will be the countries worst bottleneck when this is done. Expect jams at almost all times of the day, I'd say.

Hopefully it's just a mix-up in the scheme of things, but the Boyne Bridge M1 project was certainly not built by BAM/Ascon, or Sisk, and as I couldn't remember exactly I spent some time googling. I can't seem to link-text here, so here's the source: https://www.newcivilengineer.com/archive/up-to-speed-2-23-01-2003/ it was built by a joint venture of SIAC and O'Rourke.

This alone isn't interesting in itself, but I'm from the area and I noted the stark difference in ride quality between the M1 Gormanstown to Monasterboice stretch and the M1 Dunleer-Dundalk from as early as 2010, particularly between junction 13 and 14. Dips and bumps in the road surface. Over the following years various lanes have ended up being resurfaced. It's not hard to see the newer surfaces, when I last drove there in 2023.

To add to that, the M1 Gormanston to Monasterboice section (including the Boyne Bridge) has to my current knowledge never needed to be resurfaced since opening in 2003. And just a quick google shows that these repairs are still ongoing: https://droghedalife.com/news/temporary-closure-of-sections-of-the-m1-to-facilitate-road-works as contrasts go, it's rather damning in my opinion. Though it's newer, the N1/A1 Dundalk to Newry, built by Ferrovial, has also not shown signs of surface deterioration in its first 15 years.

Contrary to many opinions, cycling is far from the answer to everything. I am very familiar with Carrigaline, and the idea of cycling from there into the city, or the airport is just fantasy (now or in the future). Unless you actually work in the town itself, a car is essential.

I live in a bigger town myself where a lot of these new "community bike" (or whatever they're called) racks have been installed in recent times. They're almost always full and there's certainly no surge of people peddling around the town.

Beyond enthusiasts, active recreation, and those with no better alternative, they will just never be an attractive option for most people.

I tell the difference by the fact that there's not a whole lot more cycle traffic around the town (large midlands town in my example) at any time of the day. It's actually very rare to see cyclists at all in most areas outside of Dublin city centre.

Even yesterday in Cork city there were more protesters on the road than cyclists (the apparently weekly idiotic Gaza march) .

Oh lovely another culture war how original. Right, so let's start with "contrary to many opinions"… nobody in this thread has ever said that cycling is the answer to everything. In fact I've never heard anyone ever say it ever. If they did, they'd probably be laughed at.

Next, are you suggesting that the town with the highest levels of car dependency in the entire country should NOT focus on the very obvious mode share problem it suffers? Cars are just ESSENTIAL unless you actually work in the town: do you really believe this, that nothing could ever be done to fix it?

On the issue of cycling to/from Carrigaline, I've cycled to and from Carrigaline to town loads of times. It's a fairly trivial journey. I've also worked in Carrigaline loads of times and happen to know plenty of people who cycle to work in Carrigaline from outside of Carrigaline.

People living at the Northern end of Carrigaline are 8km to the Airport. 5km to Ringaskiddy. 4km to the other side of Carrigaline where the employment centres are. 8km to Douglas. 10km direct trip to Mahon, or 14km on the flat (greenway).

Is there any particular reason that you think that improving the connectivity to these is NOT desirable? And is my lived experience "just a fantasy" like you say?

Would you be willing to consider that all the design manuals stating that trips of 5-7km are the "sweet spot" for cycling could be accurate?

I mean, we all know we're probably not going to get anywhere near 30% of people in Carrigaline on bikes, but I think we can surely aspire to only 50% of Carrigaline people commuting in cars which was the original point of the conversation.

Edit: also, an ancillary question and feel free to state you'd rather not say, but do you have some kind of vested interest in cars? I only ask because there's a few people who seem to pop up in many threads seemingly ill-at-ease with any discussion of improving mode shares in urban areas. Having spent time in urban areas with very low car usage and having young/old family members myself who can't drive, I genuinely struggle to understand why people would be against it. What's bad about it, other than car sales being lower?

Yep sorry if I've been a part of dragging this one off-topic. Certainly not my intention. Hopefully M28 with BusConnects will be a big help to wider traffic and the TPREP will be a help to the local traffic issues.

Can't agree more really.

It's of course a different topic and deserving of its own thread but there needs to be a serious discussion about rail or light rail to Ringaskiddy and Carrigaline (and ideally the airport). I won't pretend I have answers, and of course it would be hideously expensive but surely we shouldn't be just leaving it off the national rail strategy the way they did. If there's merit in discussing "new rail alignments" through Meath, then surely there's merit in discussing "new rail alignments" to/through these three, given their economic output.

Whether that's linking over the river to the Cobh line or under the Airport/Farmers Cross, it doesn't sit well with me that nobody is even discussing it. Yes, green fields and relief etc, but we should be discussing these constraints and mitigating them any way possible.

€50 million allocated

https://www.tii.ie/media/orbdngms/tii_local-authorities_2025-road-grant-allocations.pdf

I'd think it's more like the heavy value doesn't start until you drive finishes etc, any bridge etc. would only be ordered at the signing of the contract and likely only have Hello money, once you're in the main project execution stage the value earned will skyrocket in the middle.