Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Enoch Burke turns up to school again despite sacking - read OP before posting

1540541543545546565

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,973 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    But they arent being persecuted for their beliefs as has been explained countless times. If he had followed proper procedure he would have been standing up for his beliefs and may have had the potential for a court case that nobody can really say with any certainty what the outcome would be. But then the burkes cant ever follow proper procedure so he accosted his boss at a public event and was promptly and correctly dismissed for that behaviour.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 170 ✭✭New Scottman


    True but there is a connection here.

    If the trans child wasn't a pupil, then I respectfully suggest that this whole situation would not have arisen.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,733 ✭✭✭EagererBeaver


    The situation arose because of Enoch and Enoch alone.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 630 ✭✭✭juno10353


    Enoch Burke in not a martyr. He is being asked to go through the recognised processed with regard to his suspension and stay away from school while this is being sorted. He refuses. Court ordered was not to attend school premises. He refuse. Was 8mprisomed for contempt of court.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 170 ✭✭New Scottman


    Did the initial incident (June 2022) occur in Enoch's first week of employment or was he working there for a number of years beforehand?



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,670 ✭✭✭eightieschewbaccy


    And Enoch behaved unacceptably, he doesn't get to shout at the principal if he's annoyed by something. He follows procedures as does the rest of the world. He did the performance cause he wanted to maximize public attention…



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,031 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    No.

    They don't get a particularly hard time from the media.

    Having said that just factually reporting their activities might lead to ridicule.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,917 ✭✭✭✭aloyisious


    On that basis, one could respectfully argue that if EB had been a classical Protestant Christian and not An Evangelist Christian, while employed at WHS, he would not have come into conflict with the school board and would not have been sacked.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,856 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    If Enoch and his family hadn't behaved like utter twats, then I respectfully suggest that this whole situation would not have arisen.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,820 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    Their methodology is to stalk schools, waste court time and harass politicians out doing their shopping.

    That's before we get into misappropriation of student union funds and setting up homophobic websites to attack gay politicians.

    Do you think this methodology should be applauded ?



  • Advertisement
  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 42,964 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Name one place of employment where you would be allowed to publicly harass your boss regardless of how long you were working there.

    Enoch's predicament has nothing to do with transgenderism. Enoch had no interaction with the pupil. This issue arose only because the family decided to make a massive issue out not nothing in order to gain publicity. Ammi torpedoed her own career in much the same way.

    And for what? The only benefit they seem to have achieved is that some blinkered idiots out there believe that they are standing up for something or other



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 27,374 CMod ✭✭✭✭spurious


    How is Enoch keeping his Teaching Council Registration, with his conviction?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,031 ✭✭✭✭elperello




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 170 ✭✭New Scottman


    It seems like he was working there for some time without issue.

    The school got rid of him because of his behaviour towards his boss.

    But this outburst is unlikely to have occurred if that student wasn’t a pupil. So logically, there is a connection.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,909 ✭✭✭beggars_bush


    He had nothing to do with the child though

    Wasn't teaching them or supervising them

    You cannot bring your own prejudices into a job like that



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 42,964 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    This outburst occurred because he felt he could bully his boss - nothing more. If he has a problem with trans people that is his issue but not a reason to become abusive. If he cannot contain himself and control his anger then he should not be given control of children.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,098 ✭✭✭✭gormdubhgorm


    You are missing the point (or maybe I am not explaining it properly) it is determination in which the Burke's USE OF methodology, the single mindedness and so on. Not the message itself.

    The message itself is delivered incorrectly in my view with a lot of misinformation and deviousness. And O'Hanlon pointed out how ineffective their form of "protest" is. It won't land in modern Ireland.

    O'Hanlon's point as I read it (which as some merit) if people had such determination to use their actions for good causes the world would be a better place. She compared the Burke's wilful determination to Nell McCaffery who was appaulded for been "Stubborn" "a fighter" etc.

    Another example springs to my mind is Sinead O'Connor ripping up the picture of the Pope, going against commonly held opinion at the time. She went against public convention.

    The Burke's keep going and they keep going and they keep going. To the extent that jail is even no deferent for that Enoch fella.

    You have to think the amount of good that could be done if wider society had that level of determination for good causes, unlike the Burke's one.

    Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,820 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    The journalist is trying to compare them to Nell McCafferty is plain and simple trolling and isn't half as smart as she thinks it is.

    And wider society does have the determination to do good. Which is why a school stood up for a trans kid and the law stood up to a school against a bully like Enoch.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,098 ✭✭✭✭gormdubhgorm


    I didn't think it was trolling I thought it more of thought provoking thing, in my view. To get people thinking/debating and it worked because since O'Hanlon's piece was posted on this thread. One poster took severe offence (without even reading it), another yourself called the piece trolling. And I thought it was an interesting angle.

    I think in general Irish people are not like the Burke's, they don't want to cause a fuss, keep the head down. Not like the French who love a protest.

    Irish people generally don't like to complain for fear it would cause offence. At the very least the Burke's (however daft they may be) have caused this thread which is a good thing, as it has caused debate.

    Which in itself is ironic considering the Burke's despite their educational attainment shout down/roar at people rather than have reasoned debate. Which is ultimately a pointless exercise.

    Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,754 ✭✭✭Ezeoul


    I assume that little dig about not reading it is aimed at me?

    It was interesting to note some of the words used in her praise. Nell was “difficult”, “fierce”, “argumentative”, “outspoken”, “fearless”, a “fighter”, “pushing against the grain”. She had, declared President Michael D Higgins, “a conscience that refuses to be silenced”.

    Well, for the record, I couldn't stand Nell McCafferty and her particular style of "determination" either.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,867 ✭✭✭FishOnABike


    May as well be admiring the determination of the architects of the holucaust, if wider society had that level of determination for good causes… 🙄



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,973 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    Lets go through this again, the school made a decision, enoch disagreed with that decision but instead of using the proper channels to express that disagreement he accosted his boss and was thus dismissed. You seem to be claiming it is somehow a childs fault for how enoch, a supposed adult and trained teacher, chose to react to the schools decision?

    Do you believe the child made him accost his boss? Because that is where the issue is and it has nothing to do with anything else you seem to be claiming, it is solely around how enoch reacted to something he disagreed with and has nothing to do with the thing he disagrees with.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 170 ✭✭New Scottman


    "The school made a decision. Enoch disagreed with that decision."

    Correct. However if the child wasn't a pupil then the school wouldn't have needed to make a decision. So there would have been nothing for Enoch to disagree with. And all this fuss could have been avoided.

    Alternatively the school could have decided to take the opposite decision and refused to agree to the child's request - Enoch would have agreed with this approach and there would have been no outburst from him.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,973 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    No because the issue and why he was let go is not because of the decision but how enoch reacted to it. Trying to blame a child for the behavior of a grown adult is really quite pathetic and also a bit disturbing, do you also blame children who get raped by adults?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 170 ✭✭New Scottman




  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 42,964 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    What an utterly vile take on Burkes actions. You are excusing his abhorrent and hateful behaviour and blaming a child who had nothing to do with events. You should really take a deep look at yourself and your warped view of reality because blaming a child for the intentional actions of an adult (and his family) really is scraping the layer of scum from the bottom of the barrell.

    I also note that you have not answered my question asking you to name one workplace where you can get away with abusing your boss - that speaks volumes!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,973 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    To be honest based on your posts so far i don't really believe you, you are trying to blame a child for enoch burkes actions which says a lot about you.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 170 ✭✭New Scottman


    Apologies Seth, I forgot to answer your question.

    I don’t know of any workplace where someone could abuse & threaten their boss & expect to keep their job.

    I accept the reason why the school got rid of him - because of his reaction to their decision.

    What I don’t accept is the assertion that the child “has nothing to do with events”. There is a connection, albeit indirect. If there was no child, there would no decision. If there was no decision, there would be no reaction.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 170 ✭✭New Scottman


    Enoch should shoulder most of the blame here - say 80%

    The school and the child a small portion - say 10% each.

    Mod Edit: Warned for ignoring mod instructions in OP

    Post edited by Necro on


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,754 ✭✭✭Ezeoul


    EB was working there since 2018.

    The student that made EB kick off wasn't the first non-binary student at WHS. A previous student made a request to be addressed by a different name / pronouns to the then principal back in December 2021 - a full six 6 months earlier. Yet no one can explain why EB didn't kick off then. (Maybe he didn't tell his Mammy about them).

    "The school made a decision. Enoch disagreed with that decision."

    Correct. However if the child wasn't a pupil then the school wouldn't have needed to make a decision. So there would have been nothing for Enoch to disagree with. And all this fuss could have been avoided.

    Alternatively the school could have decided to take the opposite decision and refused to agree to the child's request - Enoch would have agreed with this approach and there would have been no outburst from him.

    The school couldn't refuse the student's request. The student has the legal right to self-identify and the school is obliged to comply with the Equal Status Acts that allows the everyone that right.



Advertisement