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Ireland's reliance on Corporation Tax receipts

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 180 ✭✭nearby_cheetah


    Ireland did themselves a massive favour voting in the FF/FG government again, booting the Greens out while keeping the nutjobs at bay unlike the US, other European countries and the UK.

    Any senior level manager should be looking more favorably on Ireland than ever before.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,632 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    Dysfunctional housing and energy costs are still a big deterrent to investors here. FF/FG have not helped that situation and will not come close to fixing it



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,231 ✭✭✭BlueSkyDreams


    Housing completions will be around 40k this year, the highest number for well over a decade.

    Its not the 50k we would like to see but its moving in the right direction & 40k is probably higher than any of the other political parties would achieve.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,596 ✭✭✭Mr. teddywinkles


    Didn't developers say it wont even come close to that



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,231 ✭✭✭BlueSkyDreams




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,560 ✭✭✭twinytwo


    Which is still not ever close to the number we need - so it achieves nothing. They have 2 options - either build a lot more house per year or limit immigration. They cant/wont do either so this situation will keep getting worse until the economy tanks.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,632 ✭✭✭timmyntc




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,928 ✭✭✭thatsdaft


    I be interested to see a western country where housing and energy is not a problem



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,231 ✭✭✭BlueSkyDreams


    Now building more houses achieves nothing, when the aim is to build more houses?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,231 ✭✭✭BlueSkyDreams




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,126 ✭✭✭greenfield21


    The last line in this article from RTE seems ominous.

    There is no doubt that Donald Trump’s policies will have huge repercussions for Ireland

    https://www.rte.ie/news/analysis-and-comment/2025/0315/1502216-donald-trump-ireland/

    Still think the changes Trump can make here are limited. He knows that tariffs are the only option he can use to achieve his goals and that's why he is going hard with these. Other than that and using these for short term leverage there really isn't much else. What he needs is Congress and to pass changes through legislation, which isn't going to happen as all Democrats and some republicans are beholden to their donor lobbyists.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,928 ✭✭✭thatsdaft


    If anything the Trump shitshow is a huge boom for Ireland

    If you are a CEO of a US mnc investment in US while the circus is in town is already on hold

    Yes they gonna make noises about investment in US but nothing of that will happen for years and years

    That leaves them in a bind of having to increase profits, which leaves Europe as only sane destination with any certainty and predictability

    We seen all this with Brexit, the usual anti eu suspects were crying about the sky falling down and how global Britain will rule the waves

    Well we seen how that ended up, this is more of the same nonsense



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,549 ✭✭✭Pauliedragon


    We need about 90k a year so not even half what's needed will be built. Another issue is who's going to build them? I come from a family of tradesmen and some of them are way behind on projects because they can't get the workers. More waiting lists for people who are trying to finish their apprentiship but the backlog from the ETB is longer than a year in a lot of cases. Workers sitting at home waiting to work in a housing a housing crisis but can't. Put "waiting lists Irish government" into google and your device will probably explode.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,231 ✭✭✭BlueSkyDreams


    90k isnt the offical target, 41k is.

    I agree we need to do more to increase the size of the construction industry.

    It is an odd situation when we have population increase of 100k people per year but yet we are never able to catch up with required staffing levels in Health, Construction, Education and so on.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,221 ✭✭✭Emblematic


    I wonder might you be confusing the official target for what is actually required?

    Also, in your surprise that, with population increasing by 100k, we are still short of essential staff, might you be forgetting that, with this increase in population, the requirement for housing, healthcare, education etc. also increases?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,231 ✭✭✭BlueSkyDreams


    No. I was referencing the official target only.

    What is required is a subjective number and the govt arent going to grade themselves on subjective numbers.

    In other words, plucking a 90k figure out of the air and saying thats what we need to build, is pointless, when it comes to measuring actual housing delivery.

    The govt have pledged 300k homes by 2030. Thats the medium term target.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,126 ✭✭✭greenfield21


    This is a very good read from the NYT today and basically trashes everything I said in my previous post.

    April 2nd is going to be a very important day it seems and what follows after.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2025/03/17/us/politics/trump-tariffs-auto-industry-corporate-executives.html

    President Trump’s approach to tariffs has unsettled many corporate leaders who believed he would use the levies as a negotiating tool. As it turns out, he sees them as an end in themselves.

    For corporate America, including some major donors, the shock of Mr. Trump’s second term is that it turns out he really does believe the thing he’s been saying publicly for 40 years: Foreign countries are ripping America off, and tariffs are a silver bullet for America’s problems. When he says that “tariff” is the most beautiful word in the dictionary, he means it.

    ...Mr. Trump, tariffs are not merely a negotiating tool. He believes they will make America rich again. …



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,246 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    https://www.irishtimes.com/ireland/2025/03/21/us-secretary-of-commerce-says-irelands-tax-scam-has-gotta-end/

    US Secretary of Commerce Howard Lutnick has renewed his attack on Ireland calling the country his favourite “tax scam”.

    Mr Lutnick said Ireland has all the US multinational technological and pharmaceutical intellectual property (IP) rights and this deprives the United States of tax revenue.

    “That’s gotta end,” he told the All-In podcast, aimed at venture capitalists in Washington DC.

    Difficult times ahead and not much we can do about it except control spending.

    Post edited by Kermit.de.frog on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,690 ✭✭✭riddles


    that ship has sailed there is no fiscal management. Politics is short term and not compatible with long term solution. Harris and Martin aren’t solution oriented they are merely sound bite and platitude merchants.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,246 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    The government can start by informing the Irish people more firmly that the days of "give away" budgets are over so expectations are properly managed.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,010 ✭✭✭Gussie Scrotch


    Wow, that sounds ominous.

    Saying it and making it happen are two different things though.

    Don't think it will be easy for them to repatriate the pharma CT revenue, but tech might be more of a risk for us.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 29,690 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    There is not much they can do about it either.

    I still don't get what exactly it is you expect the US to do that would be so catastrophic.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 283 ✭✭babyducklings1


    ……



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,126 ✭✭✭greenfield21


    Wow, Seriously how do we not get singled out for addditonal tariffs on April 2nd. This is coming from the guy who is there to implement Trumps trade policies and directing Trump on what route to take. As has been said numerous times this is the lowest of the low hanging fruit for the US government, reduce deficit, increase tax take and new jobs. I just can't see us escaping this time, nightmare scenario.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,246 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    They can tweak the US tax code and literally within months we'll be drained of CT receipts and then we are already in a budget deficit according to the Dept of Finance.

    It doesn't have to be a disaster if we take sensible decisions now.

    What I would do as the government is I would act not like the gravy train is coming to an end but like it's already over.

    Reign in spending now and ensure the public understand why.

    If the excess CT keeps coming in for another few months, great but save it all and keep spending low.

    This being Ireland I suspect that is not what will happen but we'll see.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 29,690 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    We will not be "drained" of CT receipts not matter what they do, but it would require an awful lot more than "tweaking" the tax code to have a large impact. It would require a massive overhaul of the tax code that can only be done by Congress and which they have so far shown no signs of doing. They're too busy pushing through their deficit exploding tax cuts for billionaires.

    We are obviously at risk just in general - to global economic shocks, to the strength of the dollar and yes to changes in the landscape of where IP is homed. But no impact is going to be felt by Ireland in the timeframe of a few months. There is no lever available to the President to immediately shift offshoring of IP back to the US.

    Ignoring the fact that the tariffs do little or nothing to reduce the deficit, increase the tax take or create new jobs, putting tariffs on our massive pharma exports will do nothing except make drugs more expensive in the US and cause further retaliation from the EU.



  • Registered Users, Subscribers, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,678 ✭✭✭hometruths


    Even though we were pressured in to scrapping the Double Irish "scam", our corporation tax rocketed in 2015 thanks to the IP wheeze, which neatly demonstrates IP can be shifted between jurisdictions in a New York minute.

    What exactly is stopping the US introducing measures to move IP back to the US as quickly as it left? Are we the only ones in the world smart enough to devise tax laws and incentives to poach these intangible assets?



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 29,690 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    What measures?

    Are we the only ones in the world smart enough to devise tax laws and incentives to poach these intangible assets?

    No. Many countries have more appealing tax systems than Ireland and have for a long time. It is not the sole reason everyone is in Ireland.



  • Registered Users, Subscribers, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,678 ✭✭✭hometruths


    I am specifically talking about the IP and intangible assets - our corporate tax boom since 2015 is almost entirely thanks to our treatment of capital allowances for IP and intangible assets.

    The success of this scheme has shown the speed with with which these assets specifically can be moved.

    The US Secretary of Commerce has publicly called out our treatment of IP assets as a "tax scam".

    "We're going to try and fix a whole bunch of these tax scams. Ireland is my favourite," Howard Lutnick told the business and technology podcast All-In this week.

    He also claimed that Ireland has all the US multinational pharmaceutical and technological intellectual property (IP) rights, which leaves the United States worse off.

    "They have all of our IP for our great tech companies and great pharma companies. They all put it there because it's low tax and they don't pay us. They pay them [Ireland]. So that's got to end," he said.

    No doubt there are many companies here thanks to the educated work force, the geographic location, only English speaking country in the EU and all those valid reasons.

    And no doubt all those reasons remain valid irrespective of which country the ownership of the IP is registered.

    Our problem is the IP ownership doesn't depend on an educated work force, or a geographic location, or the English language.

    Pretending that the US can't put an end to the embarrassment of IP riches in Ireland because it takes too long to build a factory or train a workforce is just sticking our heads in the sand.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,093 ✭✭✭✭Francie Barrett


    I don't want to see us lose, but how is he wrong?

    Ireland has no divine right to the world's corporate tax revenue. Yet our politicians seem to think this is sacrosanct.



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