Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

fonecrusher1 · 14-03-2025 12:46PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123263808#Comment_123263808

Really? So we're better than we were 2 or 3 years ago? Please explain I'm all ears. 🙂

WH BONNEY · 14-03-2025 01:01PM

As a proud Irish rugby supporter I have to say that this thread is beyond embarrassing.

mod: warned.

thamus doku · 14-03-2025 01:05PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123263127#Comment_123263127

then surely using that logic they would want to go the World Cup with 2 experienced players at each position, not just 10.
would Casey if fit have started all the games with Gibson park on the bench? I doubt it.

I am all for building an experienced squad, have been saying it for years and I don’t mean just building for World Cups.
I am all for giving young talent serious game time , I would have no problem with prendergast getting so much game time if the same was done with other promising players. It wasn’t.

Irish rugby has to be very careful, We have 3 players retiring and a large bunch of our main players are the wrong side of 30. If something is not done about it soon we are Very quickly going to find ourselves in serious trouble.

Former Former Former · 14-03-2025 01:33PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123263907#Comment_123263907

then surely using that logic they would want to go the World Cup with 2 experienced players at each position, not just 10.

We absolutely would want that, yes.

And we do, in literally every position except loose-head. Now that Healy is gone, we don't have much choice but to solve that one.

So what's the problem?

For Petes Sake · 14-03-2025 03:48PM

I see we've come full decade and that this whole situation is now Johnny Sexton's fault.

mod: Strawman argument. Warned.

sprucemoose · 14-03-2025 04:16PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123263753#Comment_123263753

to add to that, crowley was only involved v fiji because frawley was injured and was in turn, only involved v Aus because Carbery was injured. the fact that he ended up starting that game was down to a freak run of injuries where the 3 choices above him in line (CF, JC, JS) all somehow got injured in turn.

Bogwoppit · 14-03-2025 04:47PM

Squidge talks about the SP vs JC situation in his preview for the Italy match.
Basically says the SP is the form 10 in the championship despite his defensive issues and JC has been selected for this match because his style is more suited to unlocking this Italian team because of how they defend.

PMC83 · 14-03-2025 05:01PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123264540#Comment_123264540

Squidge has some interesting insights but I'm not sure I'd hang my hat on that one tbh.

AbusesToilets · 14-03-2025 05:12PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123264540#Comment_123264540

Seems impossible for some folks to countenance that Prendergast was the form OH coming into the tournament and deserving of the start.

Akrasia · 14-03-2025 05:19PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123263205#Comment_123263205

It is an interesting stat, but lies, damn lies and statistics

Crowley often finished at 10 having started at 12 early on, getting valuable minutes and learning to tackle and developing physically

Sam doesn't really seem like the kind of player who could be relied upon at any other position

50HX · 14-03-2025 05:23PM

It doesn't really matter how one or both of the 10's go on Sat there will be theories & thoughts around both performances & the whys & why nots of it.

A far bigger issue is why Osbourne isn't getting a crack at 12.

This 23 selection for Sat is a bit of a missed opportunity in some aspects imo.

Pom & Murray shouldn't be there

Purely club beneficiary in Furlong getting minutes, everyone knows what he can do.

Clarkson should be there

Similar to hooker,Sheehan has minutes back in him so rotate with Gus, after 50 at least

CalmaftertheGav · 14-03-2025 05:47PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123264566#Comment_123264566

True but one thing I can always give credit to Squidge for is he takes all the emotion out of the equation and just says it like it is.

It's clear reading online with fans/journalists that many seem to have a real chip on their shoulder with Prendergast and refuse to give him credit no matter what he does. This makes it very difficult to get objective analysis on him.

Former Former Former · 14-03-2025 05:53PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123264476#Comment_123264476

where the 3 choices above him in line (CF, JC, JS) all somehow got injured in turn.

Yes Crowley got a lucky break, but at the same time Farrell had still picked him ahead of the guy who was ahead of him at Munster (Healy) and a much more experienced safe pair of hands (Ross Byrne).

He deserves credit for a ballsy selection.

ersatz · 14-03-2025 05:56PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123262968#Comment_123262968

Keenan got caps in the autumn series of his first real Leinster season, a month or two after the CC 1/4. Looking back at it SP had a full season of Leinster matches before the season in which he was capped with 4 starts and 12 bench appearances. Other than being older Keenan was more 'fast tracked' than SP.

Madeoface · 14-03-2025 06:12PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123264677#Comment_123264677

The obvious solution is for Jack Crowley to come to Leinster. Nothin' those biased men in control from Wigan, Ballymena and Harrogate via Llanelli like better than a blue 10…. so why faff around with this Leicester guff when Leinster is only up the road?

Make Ireland Great Again.

Anyway, hopefully Wales don't give away 4 tries…..unlikely - but not impossible…

Ire 40 - Italy 21. JC motm.

Ben Bailey · 14-03-2025 06:24PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123264731#Comment_123264731

Remember, you read it here first 😆

Water John · 14-03-2025 07:07PM

This season should have been rotating 10. Crowley provides, as a bonus in selection an option to go to full back or 12 finishing out a game. Alarm bells, should have been ringing, with P's missed tackle stats, going into the France game. Talking to someone who was at the match and P was way off, esp viewing it live. Any damage done to his game, was done by keeping him on for all the match, not dropping him for the Italy game. BTW, generally, I love a lot about P's game. The flat passing, wonderful line kicking.

Ardillaun · 14-03-2025 07:08PM

I don’t know how serious that Leicester option is but I would advise any player to think of the money first. Fifteen years from now we won’t be paying your mortgage - you’d be lucky to get a pint from me. Overall, the money one can earn from staying here beyond the contract and after the playing career may balance things out. But always watch the quids.

50HX · 14-03-2025 07:36PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123264705#Comment_123264705

Keenans first real season was 19/20 in which he played 886 leinster minutes inc a CC 1/4 v saracens & pro 14semi & final all 3 as starter

Sam P first real season was 23/24 where he played 69 minutes of CC rugby, 478 minutes in total, 2 urc games as starter

johnh6767 · 14-03-2025 10:23PM

Ireland last in 6N U20 . Wooden spoon. Very disappointing but shows the strength of what we have become accustomed to

Clegg · 14-03-2025 10:39PM

This years u20 campaign has been disappointing. We were unbeaten in the three previous campaigns, winning two Grand Slams.

Maybe this year's crop of players isn't as strong, but there's also mitigation in the injuries sustained. We were without our best forwards for the entire tournament. Niall Smyth signed a full professional contract for Leinster today despite the fact that he is yet to play a single provincial game. That's how highly rated he is. The u20's really missed his dynamism up front as well as Spicer's power in the second row.

There's a definite step down in coaching however. Richie Murphy's Ireland sides were very well drilled and every player was comfortable in possession and knew when to take contact and when the pass/offload was on. This side can't seem identify when there's space to actually play. The games against France and Wales were instructive for that. Both times we played against 13 or 14 men and couldn't manufacture a line break or finish a try scoring chance.

thamus doku · 14-03-2025 10:44PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123263973#Comment_123263973

The problem is what you write is simply not true.
If it was porter beirne Doris van der flier and Gibson park would not have started every game

This 6 nations was not about giving prendergast game time so we could have 2 experienced 10s, prendergast is the preferred 10.

AbusesToilets · 14-03-2025 10:56PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123265618#Comment_123265618

There's a definite step down in coaching however. Richie Murphy's Ireland sides were very well drilled and every player was comfortable in possession and knew when to take contact and when the pass/offload was on. This side can't seem identify when there's space to actually play. The games against France and Wales were instructive for that. Both times we played against 13 or 14 men and couldn't manufacture a line break or finish a try scoring chance.

This, and the poor performance of POC and Goodman in the senior set up, pose a serious question to Humphries and the IRFU. We cannot afford to carry coaches who are not up to standard imo. We ought to be more demanding of the standards we hold our coaches too.

ersatz · 15-03-2025 12:10AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123264952#Comment_123264952

It is sometimes necessary to go round and around again here. Keenan was CAPPED by Ireland in his first real season, SP wasn't.

exiledawaynothere · 15-03-2025 04:48AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123263205#Comment_123263205

Interesting stat - make of it as you will.

Jack Crowley - 6N Championship - 2024, URC champion 2023.

You know very well that Crowley got his first cap as a late injury replacement and then spent a season and a half as deputy to Sexton vying with Ross Byrne.

ersatz · 15-03-2025 05:31AM

EOS is reading much more into Crowley’s selection that I would. He seems to think SP may have blown it in the coaches eyes. Obsvly defensive problems but he also talked about the way in which premdrrgast can be a liability running with the ball, if he doesn’t make a linebreak he gets turned over too easily. Let the ‘debate’ continue, especiallly if Crowley plays well in Rome.

Billy_the_Kid · 15-03-2025 06:58AM

It is a big a step up to international level, weaknesses are exposed. People forget James Lowe was slated back in 2021 in the same way as SP here with many saying his defence will never be good enough for international level. He is now one of Irelands most vital players.

50HX · 15-03-2025 07:29AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123265824#Comment_123265824

Maybe you don't get my point. Keenan had far more substantial minutes for Leinster before being CAPPED by ireland

You may think he was fast tracked but imo his minutes & starts for club we're far higher than Sam P

Thewires · 15-03-2025 07:40AM

Worth listening from 41:50 here for the most honest analysis I’ve seen about the 10 situation.

https://youtu.be/xwMlTGEbISQ?feature=shared

phog · 15-03-2025 07:56AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123265982#Comment_123265982

EOS is a former head coach to Ireland, you could argue that he'd know about selections than the rest of us here but I wouldn't necessarily agree with him (of that is actually what he said). Eddie was well capable of backing this favorite players too so we'll have to see how things pan out a bit more between Jack & Sam to see how right Eddie is.

The other thing from Jack's pov is it's too late as it's the last game of the tournament, there's a natural gap now before the next selection headache for the national coaching team.

Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

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