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Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

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Comments

  • Subscribers, Paid Member Posts: 44,833 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Ireland 44 - 25 Italy



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 749 ✭✭✭HanShotFirst




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,466 ✭✭✭almostover


    That's a bit of a leap. But I also think Sexton should have been nowhere near this squad. A clean break was needed there.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 27,227 ✭✭✭✭phog


    Oh definitely, our forwards were particularly poor v France, almost like they were disinterested or out of sync or something but we came out second best everywhere really



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,802 ✭✭✭JanuarySnowstor


    It does seem there's something more going on with the Jack Crowley debacle. Prendergast was shoved forward in record pace. Perhaps we'll never know the truth...

    All I do know is Sexton added nothing and should be got rid. He's always had a deep hatred for Munster, spurred on by Ronan O Gara!



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,716 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    We’re just looking at things differently

    You’re looking at this game as token game time against rubbish opposition and he deserves better.

    You could equally look at it as an opportunity to start a test with JGP which he hasn’t done very often, or to play behind a pack that should be well on top and give him a chance to really play, which he hasn’t experienced very often either.

    He’s achieved a lot but there’s also a lot he hasn’t done and - whether people want to accept this or not - it’s been clear for a while that the Irish coaches want to see something more from him. He’ll be absolutely delighted to get a shot to get going on it, because otherwise the next proper test match is November.

    I agree Prendergast would be starting if we were chasing the GS.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,065 ✭✭✭KaneToad


    No there's not. Irish coaching team just think Sam is a better fit, currently, for how they want to play. It's not a conspiracy. There is no great hidden secrets. This is tinfoil hat nonsense.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 2,016 ✭✭✭Packrat


    "A chance to really play"

    In a dead rubber???

    Hes "really played" plenty behind the Irish pack last year.

    A 6 nations and URC winning 10

    If the Irish coaches wanted to see more of him they'd have played him. They didn't. They wanted SP.

    Now they want to save face and rescue the mess they created themselves.

    Nobody's buying their BS.

    Nor is Crowley I'd imagine.

    Post edited by Packrat on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,802 ✭✭✭JanuarySnowstor


    A better fit? There having their worst 6 nations in years. At least admit they got it wrong! Crowley is a proven winner, as others have said a 6N and URC.

    Sam has a lot to learn and unfortunately for Ireland fans the mgmt seem to think several poor performances is grand. Even the media are along for the ride!

    But the Munster fans will call it out because its bully boy tactics. How else do you explain Prendergast getting 80 mins against France when his performance was woeful. I tell you why, because Easterby and Sextons ego were put ahead of the good of this team



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 482 ✭✭thamus doku


    that was not meant.
    I meant sexton was needed to help prendergast make the leap.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 413 ✭✭roverjoyce


    Compare the England Bench to Ireland

    Pollock getting a chance and learning and developing whereas Ireland have POM

    In the props division England have brought through Fin Baxter where as Ireland have stuck with Healy

    That is a damming indictment of Easterby and Farrell



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 13,951 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    Clearly you have an incredibly short memory if you think this is their worst 6Ns in years. Likely 4 wins out of 5 ffs

    Post edited by AbusesToilets on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,540 ✭✭✭ersatz


    They actually made a tv show about the ROG/Sexton love affair in France.

    I think the 'more going on' with Crowley is that Farrell doesn't really trust him. He's dropped him whenever there's been a viable alternative and obvs decided to promote SP faster than he has with anyone else, though it reminds me a little of Keenan who was older but dropped into the 6N in 2021 in what was his first real season as a Leinster starter (1 appearance in the 2 previous seasons) and never looked back. I still feel like Crowley has a big future for Ireland but while lots of us feel like SP has a lot to learn, Farrell feels that way about Crowley. He hasn't been cast aide in the way the Byrnes or Frawley have been so clearly he is part of the plan.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 3,686 ✭✭✭50HX


    Keenan was starting for club prior to 6N's, he had a good consecutive run of pro14 games including the semi & final

    He then played a quarter final of CC.

    It was looking v likely that he would remain a starter for Leinster post his 6nations debut.

    I agree with you that Farrell doesn't see Crowley as the 1st choice 10, that's his call to make



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,417 ✭✭✭P.Walnuts




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,065 ✭✭✭KaneToad


    Nonsense. Ireland have lost one game to a strong French team.

    Crowley was unlikely to get a run at 10 when he was selected as a utility back in a 6/2 split.

    This juvenile sniping is really tiresome. I can't believe grown adults are persisting with it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,195 ✭✭✭TRC10


    Avg age of the starting XV is 30. 2 years out from a World Cup that’s a problem and needs addressing. Do our coaches have it in them to sort it out? I’m not sure.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,061 ✭✭✭crusd


    I dunno, maybe they want to reach a world cup in two years time with 2 10s with starting experience in big matches and the only way to do that is expose them well out from the world cup with Crowley getting last year and Prendergast this year. With the clear first choice in place by next years six nations.

    To quote an earlier post in the thread..occam's razor



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,971 ✭✭✭fonecrusher1


    Irish rugby peaked a few years ago. Not saying great things are not ahead for us but it won't be anytime too soon. Naturally teams go up & down with players retiring but can the coaches rotate in replacements for the current aging best we have in 2 years time? No chance imo. Who's replacing them exactly?



  • Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 36,368 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,359 ✭✭✭OldRio


    The tin foil hats must have been on sale reading some of the comments posted on here the last few days. The place has gone to the dogs.

    mod: warned.

    Post edited by awec on


  • Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 36,368 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    Interesting stat, make of it what you will:

    Number of starts at 10 in professional rugby prior to being capped as starting 10 for Ireland:

    Jack Crowley - 6

    Sam Prendergast - 8



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 32,765 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Teams from this stage 4 years ago before the last world cup and the RWC QF

    6N 2021

    RWC 2023

    15

    Hugo Keenan

    Hugo Keenan

    14

    Keith Earls

    Mack Hansen

    13

    Garry Ringrose

    Garry Ringrose

    12

    Robbie Henshaw

    Bundee Aki

    11

    James Lowe

    James Lowe

    10

    Johnny Sexton

    Johnny Sexton

    9

    Conor Murray

    Jamison Gibson-Park

    1

    Cian Healy

    Andrew Porter

    2

    Rob Herring

    Dan Sheehan

    3

    Andrew Porter

    Tadhg Furlong

    4

    Tadhg Beirne

    Tadhg Beirne

    5

    James Ryan

    Iain Henderson

    6

    Peter O'Mahony

    Peter O'Mahony

    7

    Josh van der Flier

    Josh van der Flier

    8

    CJ Stander

    Caelan Doris

    16

    Ronan Kelleher

    Ronan Kelleher

    17

    Dave Kilcoyne

    Dave Kilcoyne

    18

    Tadhg Furlong

    Finlay Bealham

    19

    Iain Henderson

    Joe McCarthy

    20

    Will Connors

    Jack Conan

    21

    Jamison Gibson-Park

    Conor Murray

    22

    Billy Burns

    Jack Crowley

    23

    Jordan Larmour

    Jimmy O'Brien

    All the players in bold came through in the intervening time period. Hell, Kelleher became starter then got overtaken again by Sheehan in that time period. Porter stopped being a tighthead and moved back to loosehead. GP overtook Murray and our style of play from 9 changed completely. Our current captain and arguably best player came through in that time period!

    Basically, it is completely stupid to panic 2 years our from a world cup and lots of change will happen in the interim and some mainstays of our team in RWC2027 we probably don't even recognise their names yet.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,384 ✭✭✭Jump_In_Jack


    Dead rubber? Explain that one please.

    I've seen a few throw away comments like that, can only interpret that as either a defeatist mentality or not really understanding how the 6 Nations works, and what it means to the IRFU finances.

    Ireland are first up this weekend, and can literally take top spot with a win. A win with a try bonus point would put Ireland 3 points clear at the top. The bigger the points difference the better as it would put Ireland ahead of England if it came down to points difference for second place.

    So, a big win tomorrow would put all the pressure on England to win away in Wales with a bonus point to overtake us, and it also would mean that France would have to draw with a try bonus point or win at home against Scotland to take the Championship. There is also the possibility that England will get a win with a try bonus point and that could put even more pressure on France. If either France or England lose we would move up to second place, if both lose we would take the third Championship in a row.

    Now the likelihood is that both England and France will win and possibly win well, but there is no way the match against Italy is a dead rubber. We are up first, and there are a lot of possibilities, everything to play for still. First team to win 3 in a row is still possible.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 332 ✭✭Billy_the_Kid
    Master


    ROG "Sam has been exceptional for Leinster. Jack has been like a yo-yo for Munster and, when you're a yo-yo for Munster, you don't get in the Irish team."

    #ROGknows



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 2,016 ✭✭✭Packrat


    Hopium. It's a dead rubber.

    Ireland are coming 3rd.

    If anyone in the IRFU thought any different they'd start their best outhalf who they clearly believe to be SP.

    Nope. It's a last gasp asre covering exercise.

    Which literally nobody fails to see beyond.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,384 ✭✭✭Jump_In_Jack


    Sam Prendergast is a very likeable young player, and he has been as good as you would expect a talented 21/22 year-old to be, some brilliant contributions at times and some poor passes and defensive reads, mixed overall, but he should be proud that he has done very well considering his age and inexperience and he will get better I'm sure.

    On the reasoning to change out-half with one match remaining, Jack Crowley has a bit more physicality and looks to have a bit more speed off the mark when carrying, and perhaps even a bit more deception in his short range kicking.

    The swap of the two out-halves for this match could simply be that the coaches believe Sam's last few performances were just slightly below what they wanted from him, and they probably think Jack could bring something a little better than what Sam has showed in his last few matches.

    I don't really buy into the belief that there was anything pre-ordained before the Championship, I think they selected their preferred player and were backing him until they felt the alternative might be an improvement. Simple as that in my opinion.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,730 ✭✭✭ionadnapóca


    Contract expiring: Crowley & Conan.

    Are Lowe, Osborne, Kelleher and S.Prendergast contracts also expiring?

    15. Hugo Keenan - CC 2025/26

    14. Mack Hansen - CC 2026/27

    13. Garry Ringrose - CC 2027/28

    12. Robbie Henshaw - CC 2027/28

    11. James Lowe - Leinster Apr 2023 / (PONI?) / EXPIRY 2025?

    10. Jack Crowley - Munster Dec 2022 / EXPIRY 2024/25

    9. Jamison Gibson-Park - Leinster Feb 2022 / (July 2024 CC TBC)

    1. Andrew Porter - CC 2024/25

    2. Dan Sheehan - CC 2025/26

    3. Finlay Bealham - Connacht 2025/26 / (PONI?)

    4. James Ryan - CC 2027/28

    5. Tadhg Beirne - CC 2026/27

    6. Jack Conan - Leinster EXPIRY 2024/25

    7. Josh van der Flier - CC 2025/26

    8. Caelan Doris - CC 2026/27

    Replacements:

    16. Gus McCarthy - Leinster Academy Yr 2

    17. Jack Boyle - Leinster May 2024

    18. Tadhg Furlong - CC 2026/27

    19. Joe McCarthy - CC 2027/28

    20. Peter O’Mahony - Expiry 2025

    21. Conor Murray - Expiry 2025

    22. Sam Prendergast – Leinster Aug 2023 / EXPIRY 2025?

    23. Bundee Aki - CC 2025/26

    Jamie Osborne - Leinster Mar 2023/ EXPIRY 2025?

    Ronan Kelleher - Leinster Apr 2023 / (PONI?) / EXPIRY 2025?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34 Sportsmad5


    What I make out of it is that Jack Crowley was rewarded with a bench place after an Emerging Ireland 2022 tour. It was Sexton & Carbery for the first autumn international v South Africa. Sexton & Crowley for Fiji and debut for Crowley. Australia was the final fixture, it was again to be Sexton & Crowley.

    Sexton cried off before the game so Crowley started- he got 3 mins in the 6 Nations the following year. He was sub to Sexton in RWC and not brought on in the Q/F. Did not make his 6 Nations debut until 2024.

    Another interesting stat

    Crowley - Munster mins 3,871 Ireland 1095 ( last 4 games 71)

    Prendergast Leinster mins 1,087 Ireland 452 ( last 4 games 298)



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 396 ✭✭CalmaftertheGav


    It’s weird how often this is said over the last +10 years…and the Ireland manage to find ways of getting even better.



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