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Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,026 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    The 6N was sold to us as an opportunity to train 2 out halves 

    Was it? By whom?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,138 ✭✭✭Vinnie222


    We were told this Six Nations was about developing depth at 10, but in reality, it’s been the same old story, one guy gets all the meaningful minutes while the other is left twiddling his thumbs. Crowley has barely been given a proper shot, and when he has, it’s been in short, meaningless cameos or out of position. How’s that supposed to build depth? If the plan was genuinely to develop two out-halves, you’d expect a fair split in game time, or at least a real opportunity for both to prove themselves. Instead, one guy has been handed the keys, even when the attack has looked lifeless, while the other is left wondering what he did wrong.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 33,789 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    I don't remember ever being told that by anyone.

    I think a lot of people (including myself) assumed that is what would happen. We also have no idea how things are going to go next season for example.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 596 ✭✭✭thamus doku


    If the Irish management don’t fancy Crowley that’s fine. That’s their choice. I think Pendergast should start against Italy as to not do so would be wrong. The Management have gone all in on him and should continue to back him now.

    Crowley also has to make a decision, Farrell is not going anywhere, does he want to stick around as a back up or open a new chapter in his life.

    it’s not the end of the world if he does move and any move should not be used to attack Crowley, prendergast or Farrell.

    That’s my take.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 835 ✭✭✭MangleBadger


    Easterby said that Crowley got the full 6 nations last year and they were looking at doing the same for Sam this year.

    Crowley is obviously ahead in his development. He has 24 caps to his name. They are giving Sam time this year to get him up to speed with the added pace and intensity of International rugby. It was always going to be a learning experience for him. Crowley already has a 6 nations, RWC and summer tour behind him. He is a known article.

    It is not mutually exclusive that Sam is not yet the finished article but also capable of leading the Irish team. I don't think Crowley would have drastically moved the needle in the France game. So all this talk of Sam being found out etc is hyperbole.

    I expect Sam to start this weekend. Hopefully a 5-3 bench and Jack can get some more minutes at 10.



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  • Subscribers, Paid Member Posts: 45,289 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    so in the two years since RWC 23, as prep for the RWC 27 (that so many in here are paranoid about) we will have given 2 outhalfs the opportunity to steer the ship through 2 different 6N championships.

    Its looking like, while 1 championship was a winning one, the result over all will be 4 wins and 1 loss each.

    is this not exactly the data the coaches should be analysing to make their positional decisions for this RWC 27??

    In my opinion Crowley is the better rounded outhalf right now, Prendergast has clear deficiencies and clear positives as well, so no where near as "rounded". Its also my opinion that we should stick with Prendergast against italy, again for the reason outlined in the first sentence.

    The actual decision as to who the preferred outhalf will be for RWC 27 does not have to be made until 2027.

    currently we're at approx 60/40 outhalf starts between Crowley and prendergast (Crowley is actually ahead 9 starts to 6). isn't this the preparation that posters have been calling for since the end of the last RWC??



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 27,539 ✭✭✭✭phog


    I expect Sam to start too but at the same time, Italy is usually where Ireland throw in the reserve player to get game time.

    Though Goodman seems to pour cold water on that hope for Jack.



  • Subscribers, Paid Member Posts: 45,289 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    LOL i was pretty much typing up the EXACT same post when you posted this



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,567 ✭✭✭niallm77


    Boyle, Osborne all 12, Timoney at 7

    We have options to throw guys in around the park



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,177 ✭✭✭typhoony


    The majority of top class 10's in the world you could move them to 12 and you wouldn't lose a whole lot. Not a chance Prendergast could move to 12 on the other hand Crowley can. AIso I see Matt Dawson thinks this Irish thing of giving the retiring players a big send-off is a bit of a joke.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 396 ✭✭CalmaftertheGav


    The first British journalist to write something I completely agree with.



  • Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 36,480 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney




  • Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 36,480 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    Leicester don't play tests, though. If they had signed internaional Pollard rather than the doppelganger who played for Montpellier they might have got a bargain.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,600 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    Kicking points does not make one a top drawer OH. It's important but he's vastly inferior as a playmaker. Libbock is vastly better as a playmaker for example.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,718 ✭✭✭✭Red Silurian




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 904 ✭✭✭HanShotFirst


    But not by the irfu?

    Do you think Ireland would have beaten France If Crowley had started?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,567 ✭✭✭niallm77


    I dont. I think we would have lost regardless.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,177 ✭✭✭typhoony


    But the tournament isn't over yet. Crowley could easily start at 10 against the Italians and put in a Man Of The Match performance which catapults back into pole position. Then he gets a lucrative deal from the IRFU to seal a great end to his campaign.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,447 ✭✭✭jprender


    nah it’s Italy.

    Doesn’t matter who starts.

    In fact, the players reputation can only fall against Italy. Nothing to gain imo.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,033 ✭✭✭johnh6767




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,797 ✭✭✭ec18


    if the selection was made on merit Crowley would never have fallen out of pole position. Whatever Sam P's ceiling is, he's not near it now. Selection was made based on what Farrell wants which isn't a ball playing Ten it's the Leinster style catch and pass or kick option. The only way Crowley could be back in pole position is if Sam sh!ts the bed in Rome.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 904 ✭✭✭HanShotFirst


    ok and do you think Prendergast should be dropped for Italy?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 370 ✭✭VayNiice


    Now is not the time for logical analysis.

    Of course Jack is going to leave his home province. Only a complete scrub would accept coming off the bench for 6 games.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,292 ✭✭✭Brief_Lives


    who cares what he thinks? his comments are copy paste..

    i don't think Crowley will go, but on the small %chance that he does, the IRFU might try and shovel Harry down to Munster… shudder.

    I'd be happy with Frawley, though.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,718 ✭✭✭✭Red Silurian


    No not by the IRFU, good point, not sure why they didn't publicise their tactics before the tournament started. My point is that if they were meant to be building 2 out halves over the tournament, they didn't do it very well. Instead they overplayed one of them. I'd be just as annoyed if they overplayed Crowley while they were meant to be building 2 out halves. They keep this up, regardless of player then one injury or ban is all it will take to unsettle a team

    France were very strong but so were we. I think 3 incidents, the 2 yellow cards and the pass to the french player which eventually resulted in a try for France, were ultimately what cost us the game. Not sure any of those incidents could be pinned on the out half selection to be fair.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,600 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    I thought Prendergast looked very gassed around the 55min mark, it would've been great to bring Crowley on then, but the bench split fecked us.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 904 ✭✭✭HanShotFirst


    that’s not very nice

    And I was asking if Prendergast should be dropped!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,022 ✭✭✭50HX


    Agree completely, 6-2 doesn't suit us at all & I think france going 7-1 spooked the management a little maybe.

    We didn't go 6-2 split in SA iirc



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 904 ✭✭✭HanShotFirst


    Yes not by the irfu or anyone of any significance.

    I don’t think Prendergast should be carrying any of the flak for the loss to France and to drop him now would do more harm than good to the young man.

    But it looks like Crowley will start.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,022 ✭✭✭50HX


    The more I think about the 10 debate the more I think Sam P has been unfairly thrown in at the deep end & done so too quickly.

    He's a developing 10 who had 70 minutes of CC rugby (not knock out either) prior to the AI's.

    Returns from AI & kind of has start as 10 for Leinster as the optics otherwise would be surreal.

    I thought Leinster were handling his development well.

    Now he's jettisoned to the top of the club pile & that's confirmed by Ross B departure & Autumn test starts

    There is a monumental leap from URC level to test level speed & physicality.

    It's a good job he comes across as confident as he does as he will need ever ounce of it.

    He has to start in Rome imo, if they really want to see him as the future starter then he needs every game available to him, Inc summer tour. There are not that many test games to the RWC if that's the goal

    There is room for both 10's but it needs to be managed a damp sight better than it has for both their sakes



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