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Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,483 ✭✭✭standardg60


    I noticed that myself, was completely nonchalant in doing anything about securing that ruck, way too high and ended up stood up at the side doing absolutely nothing. Looked like he was more interested in not coming to any harm, that try was solely on him.

    Against the head should be interesting, wonder if anyone is going to point him out..

    Knowledge is learning something, wisdom is learning from it, intelligence thought of it first.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,712 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    If Bealham failed a HIA at the weekend, we might be very glad of a fit Furlong



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,349 ✭✭✭✭Foxtrol


    Wales wasn't last week, it was two weeks ago.

    Why that matters is that there is no way there was going to be an 'honest and informed head-to-head' where Crowley gets a start there. It would have meant a month without a start for SP. Similarly, whoever started against England was most likely to play against Scotland due to the small window between matches and the time invested during the prep period.

    I get the frustration about them not having the head-to-head during the tournament if you are a person who believed that was going to be the case. However, the problem there is the people who believed they were going to have a head-to-head as it didn't make any sense.

    It is widely accepted that Crowley and SP are very different players, with different strengths and weaknesses so it was never going to be easy to switch between the two from match to match without revamping their whole tactical approach. They were going to set up with a style that was more suited for one or the other, unless there was injury or terrible performances that forced a change.

    If you look at your own analysis of Crowley's form, where I think you are being pretty generous related to his club form, it is hardly an overwhelming case that the Irish coaches should have set the side up for him, especially if they felt SP was more suited to how they felt they should play.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 566 ✭✭✭sliabh 1956


    If Sam P. starts next weekend and he doesnt have a blinder then management have questions to answer. They have changed the outhalf that was part of a championship winning team to a player whose team is about to finish third. If Sam was blowing the lights i would say that was a good call. But on evidence so far what has he got that Crowley hasnt. I dont think Crowley is any better or worse than Sam yet management made a huge call by demoting the incumbent for an untried player at test level.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 32,765 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    There's a genuine argument which could be made that, in green, Crowley plays better at 10 than Sam does.

    There's a genuine argument that he did last year alright (I'm not even sure where I'd fall down on it tbh). But for Ireland, and especially for Munster, he simply has not been the same player this season - something that is getting glossed over somewhat at times. Yes, he looked better in the Northampton game but it just seems it was too little, too late and one swallow and all that. I'll be interested to see how he goes in the back end of the season.

    I don't agree with how he has been used off the bench - I would have much preferred a 5-3 bench with him coming on at 10 on 60 mins on Saturday. I would have said that SP doesn't look like an 80 min player yet - which would ordinarily be fine, but suddenly we're making him play back to back 80 min matches in the 6N of all places. And all that against France just to have Baird replacing JVDF? I don't really get it.

    I haven't been enamoured by some of the coaching decisions we have been seeing.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,811 ✭✭✭sprucemoose


    not to sound like its part of some big conspiracy/plot or whatever, but i dont think the Northampton game was too little too late for Crowley, id imagine even if Crowley got POTM in every game between the AIs and the 6Ns, SP was still going to be getting the starting jersey unless he was injured

    could be completely wrong too of course



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 61 ✭✭perverseostrich


    Do you think that perhaps playing in a team with amongst others 36 and 37 year old props starting may affect his club performance a bit where his direct rival starting with a near irish pack and bringing lads like snyman and barrett on as luxury players may help?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,023 ✭✭✭Ardillaun


    There is likely an element of recency bias here, but IMO the 3 year central contract for Joe McCarthy is looking like a bad call to me. I am on record many times on this forum saying I am a huge McCarthy fan, I'm even on record saying I prefer him to Ryan. I was absolutely wrong. He was a joke on Saturday and I can't even remember the last time he put in a great showing.

    Wait a minute, you openly and shamelessly admit you were wrong about something? Is that allowed here?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,349 ✭✭✭✭Foxtrol


    What is this constant focus on team wins and trying to tie it directly to the outhalf?

    The way some keep harping back to last season, you'd swear Crowley played like the best OH in the world and dragged a poor Irish team to a grand slam, while the loss last weekend was purely down to SP where he let down an Irish side playing well.

    Presuming Italy do not come up with a huge upset at the weekend, the Irish sides this year and last will have the exact same number of losses.

    I know some have form with constantly bringing up that a substitute lock played in a world cup win but it is a team sport, the other players on their team and the performance of the opposing 23 have a huge say in who wins each match and competitions.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 413 ✭✭roverjoyce


    Jesus they are talking already about giving the 3 a fitting send off on Saturday

    What is the point of them playing?

    What other team /sport does this to players over the hill.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 627 ✭✭✭CONSI


    big financial hit for the IRFU from this 6 nations. not what they needed after a big loss last year. 6 million down, money that could have helped the provinces a lot



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,972 ✭✭✭✭Clegg


    The IRFU aren't going to be down 6 million. They never budget to finish first in the Six Nations.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 447 ✭✭Greengrass53


    Exactly. What's the deal with Murray, Pom and Healy. Thought they were now retired. Forgotten but not gone?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,272 ✭✭✭Paul Smeenus


    They budget to be top two, so we'll be down a million if England get 5 points against Wales.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,384 ✭✭✭Jump_In_Jack


    Is the 6 million loss based on a grand slam win versus coming 3rd?
    That's an amazing statement if true; that one match could have meant that much more money.
    It just shows how much pressure the Irish management would have been under to win it, and therefore the decisions they made around selection and tactics would have to have been purely to get a win, and no mind towards developing anything for the future.
    By that I mean, the selection of wings, and 10 were in the opinion of the Irish management the best available choices and the strategy and attack/defence systems that were implemented were with a view to winning.
    Critiquing selection/strategy/attack/defence systems I think the Irish management may not have had a good outing against France. Part of that would lead on from the decisions made throughout the campaign and even from the last AI, in respect of blooding new players and getting a more potent attack in place.

    The match at the weekend was disappointing on many levels, I think the management have to take some criticism on board.
    Did they get the balance wrong between blooding new players and using experienced players?
    After this 6N we probably need to start building towards the next World Cup in autumn 2027.
    How we evolve our play and bring the next generation up to the standard expected will be a very interesting endeavour.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 3,219 ✭✭✭hold my beer


    There was an article on RTE about it this morning. A lot bigger gap between 1st and last than I thought.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 13,942 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,272 ✭✭✭Paul Smeenus


    "The IRFU, while never budgeting for a grand slam campaign, have become used to top-two finishes – runners-up and back-to-back champions in the last three seasons – and are likely to have budgeted accordingly. " That's form the artilce @hold my beer shared.

    The article isn't definitive, but I assume they have a bit more insight than us. I know you're right in that they did make coming fourth part of their KPIs on their financial report a number of years ago (and also included getting past a RWC QF), but I wouldn't be surprised if they'd lifted that target.



  • Administrators Posts: 56,215 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    I refuse to believe the IRFU budget for finishing 4th based on how we've been doing recently. A 4th place finish for us would be absolutely rubbish.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 13,942 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    I'd be surprised if they abandoned a successful financial strategy in time of serious economic distress, both generally and in rugby specifically



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 396 ✭✭Tommysocks11


    I think the problem is nienbar and goodman, with catt we were creative with pods and decoy runners, with goodman we seem bereft of ideas only one out runners, nienbar gets his teams to overpower the opposition and uses blitz defence, works most of time for leinster as its basically the irish team but different story when we come up against SA, france and England etc, also regarding joe mccarthy, no wonder he is lazy and complacent as he broke through last year and has been undroppable since even though his displays have been poor, it seems it's harder to get off than onto the irish 15, same story with POM, healy and Murray etc



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 909 ✭✭✭johnh6767


    Leicester chasing Crowley according to media reports, £600k per season contract. They obviously smell blood and see an opportunity to pounce after what many feel was poor decision making / disrespect shown by Irish management . Big loss for Munster and Ireland if it happens but I totally understand if he decides to leave Ireland behind him , harder to drop the red jersey than the green I suspect!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,018 ✭✭✭✭Exclamation Marc


    If he's happy to bail on his international career after being dropped to the bench for just four or five games, good luck to him. He's not entitled to be Ireland's starting 10, nobody is. I personally think he should have had a start or two in this 6 Nations campaign but he's hardly been left in the wilderness for years.

    This notion of 'disrespect' is laughable. Should he have started a couple of games recently? Yeah probably. But disrespect? Give me a break, he's a professional rugby player and wasn't as if he was sent off to the Ireland A team.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 323 ✭✭letsbefair


    The only reason they are going for Crowley is that they can't afford Sam

    mod: warned for trolling / baiting.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,567 ✭✭✭niallm77




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 323 ✭✭letsbefair


    Mea culpa, I was trying to be funny given the last few days



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,538 ✭✭✭ersatz


    Every single Irish player who is a regular in the 23 over the last number of years would be paid better in the UK or France.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,195 ✭✭✭TRC10


    Wouldn’t begrudge him at all if he opted to go abroad and make bag. He was playing well for Ireland before being cast aside in favour of a guy who did nothing to earn the jersey. And then limited to short cameos out of his favourite position even when the other guy was stinking out the joint. He has every right to feel hard done by. If he does leave these shores I think the apathy that Munster fans currently feel towards team Ireland will turn to distain.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 323 ✭✭letsbefair


    However there is an attractive tax/pension deal in Ireland and the players are better looked after and tend to have longer careers.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,018 ✭✭✭✭Exclamation Marc


    Cast aside? It's been five games, not five years. Good chance he'll start in the Autumn series and maybe even this weekend.

    If he's that precious or entitled that the toys are out of the pram after two months, the team is better off without him.

    He has a great career ahead of him (with plenty of starts for Ireland) and we need two out-halves who can step up - and he's one of them. But if a 25 year old with 23 caps gets their nose put out of joint that easily, well then see ya later Jack. He's not Dan Carter, Johnny Sexton or Owen Farrell - yet anyway.



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