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Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,974 ✭✭✭✭ednwireland


    how did Clarkson do when he came on, only noticed he was on at the end.

    cos he was absolutely mangled in the scrum against Wales.

    not sure he was on long enough to see much. but he didn't look a prospect against Wales.

    My weather

    https://www.ecowitt.net/home/share?authorize=96CT1F



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,272 ✭✭✭Paul Smeenus


    The scrum went backwards with Clarkson on, but Gardner had no interest in penalties from scrums and just told France to use it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,061 ✭✭✭crusd


    The scrums went down not back after he came on. Who knows if he was to blame or not. At one Gardener told france to use it for about 30 seconds before they finally decided to move the ball. Should have been turnover

    Law 19: Scrum: When the scrum is stationary and the ball has been available at the back of the scrum for three-five seconds, the referee calls “use it”. The team must then play the ball out of the scrum immediately.

    Also, penalties are habitually awarded when a team is gonig forward, but it is not in the laws. A penalty is awarded when someone is illegal in the scrum. Its not illegal to have a weaker scrum. If it goes down and everyone is legal its not a penalty



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,887 ✭✭✭snotboogie


    Crowley was absolutely castigated on here and on the media for having a bad game behind a pack, including Archer, Scannell, Wycherly and a second year academy player on his first European start, that was getting beaten up in Castes, and played 60 minutes with his 3rd choice scrum half with absolutely zero mitigation given for the circumstances. There is no consistency to the analysis.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,061 ✭✭✭crusd


    Well it does in fact point to consistency in the analysis on here, in that there will always be people quick to pin everything on the 10 and never make allowances that no 10, bar perhaps Carlos Spencer who had other glaring weaknesses, could excel in a team that was massively losing the contact. We actually place too much on the 10 as fans without seeking to understand the shape of the game



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 27,228 ✭✭✭✭phog


    He was castigated on here and in the media after the loss to NZ. Look at VM post match analysis of both games. Crowley was as good a blamed for the loss to NZ but on Saturday it was a case of well Sam was poor but…



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,272 ✭✭✭Paul Smeenus


    I've no idea what your last paragraph has to do with an assessment of Clarkson.

    You literally say there "penalties are habitually awarded" - what happens to everyone else "habitually" will happen to Clarkson.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,061 ✭✭✭crusd


    Habitually does not mean automatically. And thats the point. I dont know how legal or otherwise Clarkson was in the scrums yesterday, but just because a scrum went back or went down doesn't mean its a penalty. And you can definitely start to see a move away from the methods of scrum reffing that was basically "penalty to the team with the props with better reputation" whenever anything went wrong



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,272 ✭✭✭Paul Smeenus


    I thought Clarkson backpedalled on the TH side and then collapsed, which hadn't happened with Bealham on. I do take your point about every scrum collapse not being a penalty. It's a fair point. But the French scrum was the one continuing to push trying to milk the penalty, and from my reading, Clarkson was folded.

    Maybe fairer to say I didn't see anything to reassure me after the Wales debacle rather than assuming fault.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,730 ✭✭✭ionadnapóca


    As expected. Unfortunately.

    I would start him v Italy all the same.

    After the French result Ireland have the 'opportunity' to go with more youth where possible.

    Keenan; T.O'Brien, Ringrose, Osborne, J.O'Brien; Prendergast, Gibson-Park; Boyle, Sheehan, Clarkson; Ryan, Beirne; Deegan, Kendellen/Timoney?, Doris (capt).

    Replacements: McCarthy/Barron?, Porter, Aungier/Jager?/TOT?), Baird, Soroka Prendergast, Blade, Crowley, Hugh Gavin.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,613 ✭✭✭SaoPaulo41


    RTE news : Furlong and Hansen give Ireland injury boost

    http://www.rte.ie/sport/rugby/2025/0310/1501247-furlong-and-hansen-give-ireland-injury-boost/



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,349 ✭✭✭✭Foxtrol


    What was most surprising and worrying was the ease with which they did it. 

    Up until the floodgates opened up in the second half after the second sinbinning and questionable call to allow the try it was far from 'ease' for France. Their only other try was during the first sinbinning.

    When things went bad then it snowballed, which can easily happen with a team built like France are.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,730 ✭✭✭ionadnapóca


    Furlong should not play.

    Honestly what's the big gain with playing him v Italy at this stage for Ireland?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,061 ✭✭✭crusd


    Absolutely castigated by the media::

    RTE: Vile insults

    Jack Crowley – 6

    The only real mistake, as such, was a poor dropped pass under no pressure shortly before he came off, although the out-half played it relatively safe when he had the ball, using Bundee Aki outside him to gain ground, which New Zealand were ready for. Three out of three off the tee.

    Examiner: Totally eviscerated him

    10 – Jack Crowley (Munster) 

    If it was Ciaran Frawley that stole the headlines in the summer then it was Crowley that was entrusted with setting the right tone here, place-kicking soundly but occasional fumble and replaced earlyish. 5 

    Balls: Totally annihilated his character

    10. Jack Crowley – 5/10

    Settled the nerves early with a 7th-minute penalty. Not always his fault but as the person in charge of the attack he struggled to run Ireland’s attack outside of their powerplays from set pieces. 100% off the tee. 

    Independent: I hope his family didn't read this one.

    Jack Crowley: Had to deliver but didn’t get enough ball or involvement in the opening half. Ugly knock-on in the second and departed early for Ciarán Frawley. 5

    I am just thankful he is not as much of a snowflake as ye are



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,349 ✭✭✭✭Foxtrol


    I see a few posters answer this in the way that I would so no point in repeating.

    I'll return some honest questions for or others who hold your opinion:

    1. Did Crowley perform at a 'world class level' during last years 6 nations? If not, why is the bar for SP higher for you?
    2. Was Crowley performing consistently at a 'world class level' during this season prior to the 6 nations starting? (Consistently being the key here, not one off games).
    3. Do you want young players with potentially high ceilings to get opportunities to start during the 6 nations or simply stick with the tried and trusted to minimize risk?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,349 ✭✭✭✭Foxtrol


    Thanks for digging these up.

    I felt I was living in a completely different reality with my memory post that match, especially when you look at the other 10 who was treated far, far harsher.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 27,228 ✭✭✭✭phog


    Go back and listen to Matt Williams on the post match analysis after the NZ game and read the post match posts here.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,028 ✭✭✭For Petes Sake


    Osborne had a much better performance than Bundee Aki who, like his centre partner, was largely anonymous.

    I swear people don't watch rugby on this forum.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,349 ✭✭✭✭Foxtrol


    So Matt Williams' opinion equates to being 'castigated' by the media?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 42,676 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    If you think Osbourne did better than Bundee I'd guess you don't watch, or understand, the game.

    Osbourne was very poor but he tried really hard which he deserved kudos for.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 27,228 ✭✭✭✭phog


    Aki is probably our second best back, JGP is ahead of him and Keenan is level or 3rd best.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,028 ✭✭✭For Petes Sake


    How was Osborne 'very poor'?

    Genuinely very interested to hear how you have come to this conclusion.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 42,676 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    Lots of mistakes and running down blind alleys.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,028 ✭✭✭For Petes Sake




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,061 ✭✭✭crusd


    I did go back and listen and you are looking for offence in a reaction that encompassed the full team performance, and that was clear. Just because it didn't leave Crowley out of the criticism. you think it was all about him. Which is quite strange. And for the record Prendergast was widely criticised Saturday, just not with the "worst 10 ever to play in green" hyperbole which I think is the only reaction that would sate your blooodlust for a 22 year old

    And if posts on boards are your standard for rational analysis I have pity on you. And just because some idiots in the autumn spouted nonsense about a players performance does not automatically mean that another players performance should equally be judged unjustly because he is not "your player". They they did it so I am justified line of argument.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 309 ✭✭Kerry_2008


    I hope with the Lions etc this Summer that the coaching team are looking to introduce a lot of new talent. We are 2 years out from the world cup and 2 six nations tournaments.

    In all reality we are an ageing team and a substantial rebuild will need to begin this summer.

    Bedhlam, Beirne, Conan, Van der Flier, Furlong, Aki, Henshaw will be 33 or older by then. Furlong will be 34 but has a dreadful recent injury record. Not to mention Gibson Park will be 35 and Lowe 34.

    We looked a slow team on sat and none of the lads mentioned above are going to get any faster.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 42,676 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    I presume you are talking just about the France game? After I settled down I felt Keenan was our best back followed by a tie between JGP and Bundee.

    If you are talking about this year then JGP, Lowe and Aki are far and away the best ones.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,028 ✭✭✭For Petes Sake


    There is no planet where Bundee was better than Osborne on Saturday, lads.

    The fact nobody can list the "lots of mistakes" Osborne made is telling.

    Glaring two are the kick which Dupont claimed the mark on and being beaten once in the air.

    If that constitutes a 'very poor' performance then what are we really doing here?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,061 ✭✭✭crusd


    Osbourne was decent, as a third centre and I would not be unhappy with him replacing Aki in the long run, but for me as a winger he doesn't have the instincts of a Hansen, Lowe or Nash (Or a Larmour, O'Brien or Daly for that matter)



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 27,228 ✭✭✭✭phog


    No, I'm talking about Ireland in general, Lowe is very important to how we play but he has his weaknesses too, Aki is like a forward in defence and can challenge anyone in attack and JGP is probably the second best scrumhalf in the world.



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