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Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 2,016 ✭✭✭Packrat


    It's unbelievable. I'd expect no more on FB.. or Twatter...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,842 ✭✭✭Buddy Bubs


    I'd be promoting conan to start at 6 now. Possibly look at Coombes in a new impact role, but he seems to be out of favour. I just think he would contribute in the right role, he's not an international starter though. I don't like Baird as an international player against the big teams, just don't think he has the fight in him. Great athlete but goes missing.

    I wouldn't put POM, Murray or Healy in the 23 for Italy now, they had their home send off and it must be close to 50/50 with some of the replacements

    Ryan and Beirne in 2nd row. McCarthy impact sub.

    Osbourne and ringrose centres. Henshaw covering a number of back positions.

    I'd start crowley at 10 and prendergast on bench in our normal 5/3 split. I see this as a long term partnership between the 2 of them to develop both.

    Furlong back into 23 assuming he is fit to come off bench. Although I fear he is in twilight now and we won't see the player we all loved over the years.

    Hopefully Lowe and Hansen are available.

    There are too many variables next week to think we are realistic championship winners not to make a few changes. Nothing radical there I feel, just freshening up.

    Long term, there needs to be 4 competitive teams in Irish provinces. Munster best placed to improve at the moment but short a few top class operators. I think Ahern and Gleeson will make step up by WC 27 to replace the likes of Beirne, Conan.

    Without leinster we would be at the level of Wales and Scotland fighting it out for 3rd/4th place but leinster are coming to the end of 2nd golden generation now, a 3rd generation is a tough ask, maybe they will, maybe they won't. France have toulouse and bordeaux up at or above leinsters level to heavily contribute to national team, plus 12 other teams to cherry pick a player or 2 from, like that la rochelle flanker that played centre yesterday, they'll never be stuck once they have their heads in the game.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 396 ✭✭CalmaftertheGav


    When you have to carry a forward against a pack as big as France it's a big issue actually.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 59 ✭✭shimmieandshake


    Lots of kneejerk commentary.

    Understandable to a point - it was an upsetting performance - but we were maybe due a stuffing. We had a bad day, France had a good day. They were clinical, we weren't. The French defended out of their skins. Not sure if I'm being one-eyed, but felt like some crucial decisions went against us. The penalty against Porter from the kick-off was farce.

    I think we're a long way from panic stations, and if anything, today will be very helpful in the long term. It's illuminated an over-dependence on Lowe's 'something from nothing' ability and a general lack of speed.

    I suspect all the angst about the aging squad will fade this summer/autumn. Players like Ben Murphy, Hugh Gavin, McNabney, Postlethwaite, Jack Boyle, Brian Gleeson and so on will be playing against Romania and Portugal. Gus McCarthy, Izzy and Jamie Osbourne will bed in more. The new blood that goes well there will be involved for a stacked Autumn International fixture list, and then on into the 2026 Six Nations. The evolution will accelerate soon.

    My main question at this stage: anybody know what's going on with JOB? Last I saw of him, he came back from injury (maybe at the start of this season?) looking sharper/faster than ever.

    Another question: any quick/elusive outside backs coming through in the u20s sides of the last two/three seasons?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 27,222 ✭✭✭✭phog


    Ireland has book ended their home games this season with losses and Wales tested us more than anyone here expected.

    Our attack seems disjointed, more a game of chipping/kicking ahead and try and capitalise, our discipline is poor and some of our handling is abysmal, especially in the game v NZ



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,216 ✭✭✭TomsOnTheRoof


    I don't know why they won't have a look at Coombes at 6. He covers two backrow positions and lock as well but more importantly he gives Ireland exactly what they need, a genuine try scoring threat when camped on the opposition line. We have a massive issue with converting pressure into points and Coombes is someone who could help with that. Yes, he's not the most explosive player but he'll make 15 tackles, carry all day and be a real bastard in the tight. Its exactly what we need. He has a great pair of hands too. What's to be lost by looking at him.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,817 ✭✭✭Brief_Lives


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123247029#Comment_123247029

    it truly is Bizarre, but it is what it is for now, until the world cup seedings are made..

    when's that? pre 2026 6-nations?

    He will get a few games this summer, but back to the usual for the AIs.

    I can see ROG coming in for him, if ROG extends his own contract at La Rochelle.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 433 ✭✭The Macho Man


    Its fairly obvious to me the day Mike Catt walked out the door after the SA tour, Ireland have regressed. In every way. Attack is borderline one dimensional. At times disjointed. We don't have the slick, fluid, constantly changing the point of attack anymore. Ruck resourcing is poor. Turnovers are high.

    Even in defence, we're not as strong. We've gone very narrow. If Farrell doesnt address that we're in trouble big time.

    If changes need to be made do it now, and build towards the next WC.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,195 ✭✭✭TRC10


    The IRFU don’t give a toss about the World Cup. As long as they win the odd 6N, consistently finish in the top 2 and continue to fill out the Aviva at extortionate prices, then the coffers are full and they’re happy. They’ll pay lip service to the World Cup but ultimately they’re very happy with the status quo and have no reason to change.



  • Posts: 146 ✭✭ [Deleted User]


    So what you're saying is that the Irish coaches should watch these younger players repeatedly make errors in provincial games and Ireland training camps, then select them to play a highly technical game plan under massive pressure with limited training time?

    I've wanted to see a younger more athletic replacement for POM for a number of years. You can be sure that the coaches have wanted one too. It's pretty clear that only Baird has been fit, available, training well, and in very close contention. Personally, I'd have preferred Baird but I wasn't going to go be upset if the coaches see POM as marginally ahead.

    The selection decision that had real impact on the result was picking McCarthy for his size and athleticism. James Ryan works harder, is a technically better player, and makes far fewer costly errors in games. But that would be another conservative selection I suppose.

    I can see that we won't agree here so I'll exit the conversation and save you from writing a novel. 😀



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 396 ✭✭CalmaftertheGav


    Izuchukwu and Baird have been in camp long enough to know the systems at this stage.

    No they don't, they are doing what they've always done, keeping older players around too long …this is nothing new and unfortunately this is another case where we need a player to retire before the coaches make the necessary changes. Nothing ever changes with Ireland sadly.

    I'm not surprised you're okay with it, like I said previously, being happy with the safe option is just ingrained in the Irish psyche and it goes deeper than just the coaching staff.

    James Ryan is still a top-class operator who I also would have had start…POM isn't, POM is 2 years past his sell by date and should have gone after the RWC or at the latest the SA tour.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 27,222 ✭✭✭✭phog


    You must have been in coronary care during the RWC watching a 37yo play us



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 396 ✭✭CalmaftertheGav


    A 37 year old who was still a top player, there's a difference.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,028 ✭✭✭For Petes Sake


    Another one who seems to be of the bizarre opinion that Osborne played badly yesterday.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 27,222 ✭✭✭✭phog


    He was out on his feet in the later stages of QF, took ages to get up of the ground at times, no running risk , just passing the ball to the next/nearest Irish player, no impact in rucks he joined.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,462 ✭✭✭almostover


    He's better off to call it a day in green now alright although I'd like him to do 1 more season with us at Munster. That may not be for him though.

    POM is an Ireland great and a Lions test captain, albeit one who was dropped. Was never the most gifted rugby player but extracted everything from his abilities and physical attributes. There's a lot to be learned in that for the likes of Big Joe.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,712 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    Sexton retired a year and a half ago and people still hate him.

    time to move on lads



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,462 ✭✭✭almostover


    VdF was the poorest of starting back row yesterday and has had a very mediocre 6N this year. And we didn't even bring another 7 into camp. I'd be far more concerned about that than POM, who played fairly well throughout the tournament.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 396 ✭✭CalmaftertheGav


    So you are saying POM in 2025 is of a similar standard to Sexton in 2023? It's to pick out any moment that show's he isn't up…



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 396 ✭✭CalmaftertheGav


    Not really, VDF has generally been excellent with this 6N being a blip. Even in the autumn he was one of the few Irish players to emerge with credit. POM is a 36 year old who hasnt been anymore than a 7/10 player for at least 3 years now.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,028 ✭✭✭For Petes Sake


    A very mediocre 6N?

    This just isn't true, unless I'm watching a completely different match to you.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,462 ✭✭✭almostover


    I'm not disagreeing that VdF's poor tournament this year is anything more than a blip. But we've developed zero depth is his position and put all our eggs in one basket. You've named several suitors to the 6 jersey, care to do the same for the 7 shirt?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,462 ✭✭✭almostover


    He's been outplayed by his opposite number in all games bar Scotland. Tom Curry, Jac Morgan and Paul Boudehent all made hay against us. I'd argue that Fraser McReight did a number on him in the AI too.

    VdF hasn't been bad but he's been well below his WPOTY form.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 396 ✭✭CalmaftertheGav


    Tbh the 7 shirt is the one position that's a little more precarious, but for the life of me I cant understand how Hodnett hasnt been looked at. Been at least as good as anyone bar Doris/Conan/VDF (At his best).



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,272 ✭✭✭Paul Smeenus


    100% this. People are moaning about Healy, Herring and Murray.

    VdF, McCarthy, Beirne, JGP (third best 9 to take the pitch) are all more culpable. To say nothing of Prendergast, Osbourne etc. I thought only Doris and Keenan were good. Sheehan was quite good.

    Do I think we should move on from the old guard? Absolutely. I do think we have an issue with reverence and sentiment clouding out selections.

    Did yesterday prove that? No, actually - not as much as it proved there are other issues.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 2,016 ✭✭✭Packrat


    In fairness to him he isn't a winger. The other two were very very poor though.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,096 ✭✭✭Vinnie222


    We were told by some poster on here that it's like for like, comparing him to Hansen 😂



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,462 ✭✭✭almostover


    What annoys me is that we didn't even bring another no.7 to this tournament. Not 1. We've backed VdF as our only option. At least we've tried fellas in other positions, Boyle at LH, Clarkson at TH, Baird at 6 etc.

    It's VdF or bust at 7. Doris ended up there after 48 mins yesterday. Or was it Baird? Either way, when other teams are playing 2 opensides to go after the breakdown we're playing 1 and hoping he can go 80 mins week in week out. It's crazy selection policy.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 27,222 ✭✭✭✭phog


    On guard jury as ever

    Get over your Hate Comments they do nothing for the thread



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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 32,765 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    In many ways I think the departure of Lancaster from Leinster has hurt Ireland more than anything else. With the total about face that Leinster have managed in playing style, I don't think the core of the Irish team that comes from Leinster are able to play the same kind of high skill ball in hand game that they used to be able to. They certainly can't do it for Leinster and it is hard to just turn that on for internationals.

    I think selection was fairly far down the list of issues yesterday. I do not understand starting McCarthy over Ryan and I probably would have gone with Conan and Doris starting in the backrow and a 5-3 bench. But that wouldn't have changed the fact that we were absolutely monstered physically up front. I hate the held up law but everyone knows it and those two held ups were never going to be scores. We just lacked the physicality to get over the line. Our wingers were not good, but it's hard to argue that they weren't the best two available either given injuries and it is a massive issue going forward. I think we were unlucky and a few small things could have gone our way and it would at least have been a closer game but not sure we were ever going to be winning that. I don't really think it is a "blueprint" to beat Ireland as there are vanishingly few times who can bring that level of physicality.



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