Russia-Ukraine War (continuing)

Did NATO not sign an agreement not to move another inch eastward?? Yes or No will suffice.

No:

I still don't get why the whole "Europe can't match the US militarily" argument keeps getting made.

The simple fact is it doesn't need to. It just needs to be able to best Russia and that has never been an easier thing to achieve if the will is there to do it (where I think the actual problem is). Europe has more warplanes, more tanks, more artillery, more soldiers, a larger population and an economy that's many, many times the size of Russias.

Unless Trump is actually prepared to go to war alongside the dictator he so admires, Europe (and it's global allies Canada, Australia etc.) can utterly crush Russia and it's allies very, very easily. No way China's getting involved on anyone's behalf.

"but Russia has nukes!"

Yes, so do the French (and maybe the British - depending on the level of US control over their systems).

"but Russia has more nukes"

Yes, they do. But they also only have a population density that means you'd kill 20% of their population with just 2 nuclear warheads (Moscow and St Petersburg) and a large percentage of the rest would splinter away immediately after into the various stans and regional provinces.

Were a "coalition of the willing" to announce itself with a devastating air attack on Russian forces in occupied Ukraine (where, lets not forget, Ukraine have been steadily erroding their air defenses), Russian soldiers would be marching back to their own territory by morning.

@TokTik "Which side in this war is it that has Nazi battalions again?? Parades for Nazis? Had the Canadian govt give a standing ovation to a Nazi?? Hint: it wasn’t the Russians."

You are unfairly associating Ukrainian nazis with the original German nazis. They are two different things. The Ukrainians joined with the nazis because the nazis were fighting Ukraine's enemy, Russia. It made practical sense to do so. Since then they have parades because their nazis are anti Russian. All this in very different from the German nazis. So forget the guilt by association trip.

@TokTik "Did NATO not sign an agreement not to move another inch eastward?? Yes or No will suffice."

As far as I know there was a tacit agreement not to move one inch into East Germany. But that was bound up with the politics of the day which are now gone.

Wrong again. There was a verbal discussion but no signed agreement. And it was in the context of East Germany post reunification; not other Eastern European countries. And it was during a discussion with USSR; not russia.

NATO has always maintained that countries are free to choose their own security arrangements, including whether or not to join NATO. Even the NATO-Russia founding act established cooperation between the two entities, but nothing about limiting expansion.

Stop repeating Kremlin propaganda. It's far too easily rebutted

You've obviously got an interest in history. So why not indulge it and actually read some history books? Seriously, dig beneath the surface of the historical "facts" you're posting here and draw your own conclusions. I'm sure regular posters will be happy to recommend some reading material. For my part I'll recommend a BBC documentary series to ease you in:

Russia 1985-1999: TraumaZone (you'll find it on Youtube)

Then come back to us and either:

(a) you'll agree that Putin's Russia is on the wrong side of history in their illegal invasion of Ukraine

or

(b) we'll know for certain that you're a professional disseminator of Kremlin propoganda

Whac-a-mole continues. Another poster appears in the thread round the time a couple of better known spamniks got thread-banned.

The arguments are weaker and more watered down than before though. I preferred the efforts of posting maps and trying to appear "concerned", objective and at least giving the impression of applying critical thinking. Weak arguments are just weak. I'm disappointed with the lack of original material.

You are asking the wrong question

NATO is not a threat to Putin. Finland recently joined NATO and Putin moved troops away from the border.

NATO is only a threat to Putin's plans to invade other countries. As evidenced by Putin invading a non-NATO country before it could join.

It's pretty black and white.

There are two types who defend Russia

• Russians and their army of what they themselves call “useful idiots” often recruited from the scutery (that a word?) depths of conspiracy theory swamp
• Far right and far left sympathisers in west who hate our way of life and look up to the tzar

It’s the last lot on the far left who crack me up, literally defending neo Nazis marching under the Zwastika for four years now

I see @Sand has gone all quiet lately, now that his much hated Americans are on the same side as his beloved Russians whose propaganda in a typical whiplash fashion now done a complete 180 on US

Must be having a real “was I wrong” moment there

Did Russia sign an agreement which prohibited Russia, the United States, and the United Kingdom from threatening or using military force or economic coercion against Ukraine, Belarus, and Kazakhstan, "except in self-defence or otherwise in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations." Yes or No will suffice.

I foreshadowed this one. I hope Starmer has the balls to do what's obviously necessary:

Donald Trump has now banned UK from sharing any US military intelligence with Ukraine

And now reports claim all UK intelligence agencies and military outlets have received an order expressly forbidding the sharing of US-generated intelligence, previously known as "Rel UKR" - short for Releasable to Ukraine.

It is another huge blow for Mr Zelensky, 47, as the UK and other Western security partners such as Australia and New Zealand have shared such knowledge with Ukraine since the conflict began three years ago. As Russia's onslaught continues, it is feared the ban will further hamper Ukraine's chances to defend itself.

Agent Kraznov strikes again. So much for Zelensky bowing to bad advice that he try and patch things up with an Orc agent. There is no deal, there never was a real prospect of one, it's all just a smoke screen - theatre - to try and hide the obvious fact that Trump is a Russian agent and until enough elected Republicans wake up and realise this, nothing is going to change.

The UK shares a lot of intelligence with the US. Starmer needs to just tell Kraznov he'll do as he sees fit and doesn't take orders from the US.

Australia should pre-empt any similar BS from Kraznov and tell him not to bother issuing instructions to a sovereign nation otherwise Pine Gap will be taken over by Australia and will no longer serve US interests. That ought to wakeup any sane elected Republicans, if there are any - obviously wouldn't bother Kraznov.

Of course all this only serves Putin's interests so Kraznov isn't going to care about the castration of US intelligence gathering and the ending of relationships with former allies, who should all just grow a pair and bight the bullet and en-mass declare the cutting of military and intelligence ties to the US as a shock measure to wake up those in the US who don't work for Putrid.

When Neil Armstrong stepped foot on the Moon, and that famous footage was watched live world wide, including by myself, sitting cross legged on a hard wooden floor, gazing up at a very large and heavy B&W CRT TV in a classroom in Perth, all the signals from the Apollo 11 lander, including the TV footage, were being received by large radio telescope dish antennae in Australia, and then sent from there worldwide, including the US. The realities of geography mean the US relies heavily on Australia's cooperation and good will for many things.

This is the journalist propagandist that asked the suit question to Zelenskyy….

might as well have been a party political broadcast…

(Sadly though despite the title, she didn't challenge him at all…)

I understand this view, but everyone "keeping their heads down" is precisely how we have all collectively arrived at this point.

It doesn't work. In fact, it has the opposite effect.

Again the position is understandable, but if we persist in waving a red rag at a bull (appeasement, hiding), it's going to keep charging.

I get that it's difficult for people to process, it seems counterintuitive, but we are a part of the EU, we benefit from it immensely, we can't just hide when things get difficult

Could I ask you for the source you quoted please?

Read a book a year or two back about all the Russian money in London and I'd say that was half the reason they got away with a lot. Obviously completely idiotic but the rationale. The UK was basically the Cayman Islands for Russia, the US meanwhile would investigate origin of money.