Hamas strike on Israel - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

I posted a while back that Netanyahu is refusing an enquiry into Oct 7th that 80% of Israelis are demanding.
I was incorrect, it's 83%. (Someone queried where the data came from)

"Mr. Prime Minister, you and your government have yet to take responsibility. 

So many civilians are asking for forgiveness, and so few politicians are asking for forgiveness.

83 percent of Israel's citizens demand a state commission of inquiry, along with the 1,500 families of the October Council, including myself. 

Its goal is not a personal persecution, but a learning of lessons to prevent the next disaster."

While this is going to lead to a disaster if not settled. I hold no sympathy for the Hamas position. Murderers holding hostages against murder is hardly a fitting plea for the end of a war.

Ah ok, got you. Tbh this whole conflict is difficult to understand, including this ceasefire. I asked a question and somebody who supported Israel could just as easily have come back and explained it to me (including you).

My understanding is that Hamas has hostages and Israel has hostages/prisoners, and there are agreements to periodically release them. The ceasefire was to continue based on specific terms as long as each side held up their end.

It seems Hamas are broadly sticking to their side of the agreement, and I can't find evidence to say they haven't been. The whole prisoner release thing they do is a disgrace, parading coffins around etc - but is it actually going against the terms? Skating on thin ice for sure, but does it warrant Israel's response? As you said they have been no angels either so a mirror has to be held up.

I don't see the actions of a terrorist group as giving any legitimate reason for Israel to withhold food and aid to civilians - it is an absolutely evil thing to do. There are people trapped in Gaza who will starve, infants and the most vulnerable will die, and those with medical conditions or injury will go untreated - it is blanket targeting innocent people and does nothing to hurt Hamas - as many pro Israel people have said here, Hamas terrorists looked pretty well fed last time Israel did this.

It just seems like Israel set themselves up to break this ceasefire, it's hard to understand why they entered into it in the first place, and gave people hope this could end.

This thread has become a little stale over the last few days—no surprise, given the focus on the Ukraine-Russia war. I just wanted to share the video below. It features a speech delivered by Rawan Osman, a Syrian-born activist, at the United Nations Human Rights Council yesterday. Do you agree or disagree with her remarks? I'd be really interested to hear the perspective of Palestine supporters on Eli Cohen. Should his body be returned to his wife so she can lay him to rest before she passes away?

I wouldn't argue much with her comments, or on the fact that Eli Cohens wife deserves to get his body back either. I don't think you'll find too many supporters of any type of terrorism or hostage taking or abuse. Its clear she voiced that Israel isn't the problem in her Eyes,that's where I disagree with her. Not of course that Israel is the complete problem, she mentioned the other culprits.

But Israel is a major aggressor and killer of innocent men women and children. I use the word "killer" as a neutral word of fact. But murderer is probably more likely to be correct

I've been accused of regularly posting negative content about Israel. I would of course welcome any and all sourced rebuttals and evidence to the contrary. Or even positive news articles about Israel and their conduct. But it's never been anything other than crickets.

But the interesting thing is that many of the negativity is actually coming from Israelis themselves, not from me.

Here's some more that give you a clear picture of how much Israelis despise Netanyahu and how much he values himself as the only priority that matters:

• The family of Israeli soldier and hostage Matan Angrest shared a photo of him from captivity. Hagai Angrest, Matan's father, told Israel's public broadcaster that the images may be disturbing, and that the family made them public to pressure PM Netanyahu to ensure the hostage deal continues. "Why is Bibi [Netanyahu] not meeting with us? Our request from last year, as a soldier's parents, still stands, but he doesn't want to meet with us. We don't know why."
  
• Einav Zangauker, whose son Matan is held in Gaza, called for protesters to stage a sit-in on Saturday outside Defense Ministry HQ in Tel Aviv – the place from where "Netanyahu will manage the renewal of the war." Zangauker added that "everything we feared and warned about is happening. Netanyahu is violating the agreement and dragging us back into war. The army is already preparing. We must not let this happen. Reality has proven war does not bring hostages back – it kills them."
  
• Alon Nimrodi, father of the Israeli soldier and hostage Tamir Nimrodi, told Israel's public broadcaster that he is "pinning my hopes on Witkoff and Trump, Netanyahu is irrelevant. I met with him once on December 23 and that was enough for me. Netanyahu is the coldest and most out of touch person I have ever met."

Unfortunately like the reportage from most conflict areas this thread has descended into a semi propaganda series of posts.

I feel a much more ‘objective and studied ‘discussion would be more helpful rather than flooding the thread with

one sided grabs from various media.

I feel it would add better perspective to the discourse.

Mod - warned for backseat moderation

Sounds like you really want to shut down discussion on this subject rather than 'objective and studied' discussion. Can you not start that 'objective and studied' discussion and see where it goes?

Again you are replying to nobody and being very vague. You seem to be making the same point ad nauseum. Anytime you do engage, you are clearly out of your depth. If people provide information and links, then fair play to them. It's the people that throw out accusations with zero proof that ruin the thread.

Are you trying to shut down disucssion or looking for attention? You are adding nothing to the discourse, just muddying the waters.

As someone who is firmly pro-Israel, I have no time whatsoever for Netenyahu. He's not well liked and if there were no war likely he would be out of office already.

I liken him to 'Dubya', the 9-11 terror attacks helped Bush stay in office, and the 7-10 terrorist attacks had a same impact for Netenyahu. But patience will run out, while everyone stands behind the IDF and the office of the PM, there isn't the same like for Netenyahu, the man or the politician.

I firmly believe most Israelis want a return to peace, an extinction of H*mas, and an elected Palestinian government for Palestinian areas. Of course there are extremists (there are on both sides).

You're simply repeating your multiple previous posts without adding any substance.

I'll repeat what I posted previously - if you want that "objective and studied discussion", I'm still all ears for your valued contribution.

But all I'm hearing is crickets.

I'm afraid it's not that simple and won't be.

The feeling of both communities towards each other isn't one of peace towards each other, its one of total mistrust and on a large scale, hate. Neither side care what happens to the other really and both consider the other, in total, not just the armed wings, to be their enemy.

Thats it in a nutshell, both sides have no regard for each other, especially those in power and there is nobody able to bang heads together and get them to see sense……that's about it!!

The Israelis are grabbing land….. the other are firing rockets back at them….who is suffering……the ordinary population.

This has been going on for decades and nobody has copped on as to how different it could be with a bit of sense.

But there has to be hope that at least the ordinary civilians can meet eye to eye and avoid all the bloodshed.

Perhaps it is just a fool's hope. But if so, this will never end and all this discussion is a waste of time.

Let Israel continuously pound the Palestinians and let the terrorists continue to murder Israelis and take hostages.

To be honest, if a condition for peace was a removal of the current government of Israel, a removal of H*mas and free elections in the palestinian areas, and a commitment on both sides to work together, I'd be in favor of a ceasefire now.

They need a good friday agreement. If SF/IRA and UUP/DUP/UVF can work together after decades of terrorist attacks on both sides, the israelis and palestinians should be able to in time too.

To be honest, a removal of both 'Palestine' and 'Israel' name tags should be on the table, and have one 'State of the Holy Land' or something, with representatives from both sides in government - like a federal solution or something.

I just fear that the existing two state solution can no longer work, and long term peace requires working together. Yes they killed family members on both sides. Guess what, my extended family and social circle encompasses both unionists and nationalists from the north who were victims of terrorist attacks. Yet nationalists and unionists work together now (not easily of course, but it works-ish).