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homeowner in dublin being pursued over external insulation

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Comments

  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 42,319 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    Home owner looking for sympathy….IMO.

    Get a proper Retention Application lodged. Use a Planning agent. Don't try submit with drawings from your 14 year old!

    Home owners could have also used the brick slips at the ground floor to keep the character of the house and surrounding houses.

    Can soneone post the SDCC Ref. No, and I'll give a Planning perspective opinion….



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,407 ✭✭✭✭noodler


    Hard to blame him.

    Everything he is doing is in line with broader government policy objectives and it seems silly we can have more subjective and superficial complaints from the Jones' trump that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,943 ✭✭✭10-10-20


    Brick slips will be the good outcome I suspect.



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 42,319 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    You can say the same for the countless peopl who put big log cabins out the back garden.

    Taken the word of a contractor that planning is not required etc

    Home owner is left to face the music.

    Bottom line is that it requires planning, the removal of the brick detail requires planning, I've had to include it in various planning applications over Dublin where the home owner is getting EWI.

    He is not in line with Planning Policy and he has to deal with that. Get a proper planning in and be done with it. fighting the system will sell papers for the IT, but the home owner will still be left to face the bill if he buries his head in the sand.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,943 ✭✭✭10-10-20




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  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 42,319 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo




  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 42,319 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    SD24B/0584

    Invalid Planning Application.
    Drawings done by someone that hasn’t a clue about proper planning policy or application procedures. A step up from the previous one but still nowhere near enough for planning.

    Invalidated for the following reasons.

    IMG_0803.jpeg IMG_0804.jpeg


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 42,319 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    SD24B/0516

    Invalid Planning Application. 
    Drawings done by someone that hasn’t a clue about proper planning policy or application procedures. 

    Drawings appear to be rough sketches not to scale done by someone on the bus on the way into work!

    Invalidated for the following reasons.

    IMG_0803.jpeg IMG_0804.jpeg


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 42,319 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    doesn’t appear to be any subsequent planning applications following the 2 invalidations. Home owners haven’t done ignoring the situation if that’s the case.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,385 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    Being a new estate has no bearing on planning law. The rules are the same everywhere.
    Painting is fine, an exemption exists for painting.

    Why would the government need to step in?

    There no issue with the broader objectives, the issue is he didn't apply for planning.
    The sob story in the paper, the parliamentary question from the local TD, etc. Making a mountain out of a molehill.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 937 ✭✭✭cobham


    I have seen brick finish/cladding applied on top of new insulation, to match in with semi detached neighbour and looks well.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 46,885 ✭✭✭✭muffler


    Theres a huge difference between a planning application being invalidated and refused. From the posts above it seems like the guy made 2 applications both of which were invalid and not refused so the papers got that wrong. That's the journalistic talents of this world whereby they can't be arsed to check facts.

    If he submits a valid planning application then I am confident it will be granted. The warning letters he received are the usual run of the mill stuff and contain information on what the maximum penalties can be in the event of a successful enforcement. I think this guy ran to the press with what he thought was a good story instead of concentrating his efforts on a proper planning application.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,488 ✭✭✭Doop


    Worth noting it is not the installer of the EWI or the SEAI to advise or confirm if you need planning, its solely the responsibility of the home owner. One should never rely on a contractor to advise on planning issues, its not their area of expertise nor could you hold them in any way responsible because they told you its doesn't need planning. Not saying I agree with the council here but people need to be informed about their responsibility and get advice from suitably qualifed professionals.

    As for the the retention applications, that 'sketch' is laughable.. again you need a level of professional competence (or to employ someone) to produce drawings and submit a correct application. Even seasoned professionals fall foul of invalid applications so a homeowner or contractor is fighting a loosing battle trying to wing it themselves with an application.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,943 ✭✭✭10-10-20


    At a guess the second retention request was completed at behest of the homeowner on the basis of the hand-drawings and without a site visit by the person who drew it up from Crossmolina. 😱



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,385 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    There's been no suggestion that he needs to do brick slips. It could potentially be granted as it, if they got the application together



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,152 ✭✭✭mrslancaster


    The house in the article is not the only one on that road that doesn’t have the bottom red brick. The other homeowners might have PP of course.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,034 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    I already said why. The government is concerned with meeting CO2 targets. As with the solar panel example, the government can not afford to have councils acting against it's CO2 reduction policies.

    Another example of this is the very recent drubbing the High Court gave An Bord Pleanalla:

    High Court rules An Bord Pleanala must prioritise climate law in wind farm case likely to affect all public bodies

    By extension, this also means that councils must do likewise, which objecting to insulation clearly is not.

    Power over solar panels was removed from the remit of councils because the issue was too important to be left to their small minded planning BS. Promulgating heat pumps is arguably even more important for reaching CO2 targets than solar panels, so it stands to reason that if councils are going to start messing people around for furthering the government's goals, their power to do so must be curtailed - which would be consistent with the solar panel enabling legislation.



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 42,319 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    I agree. I've gotten planning for it in DCC.

    The brick slips would have jusr made the works exempt in my opinion and therefore not require planning/retention.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 72 ✭✭quantum_technician


    I thought brickwork cladding is relatively widely available and brings the structure back in to compliance for those who are paperwork averse.



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 42,319 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    Exactly.

    Brick slips would mean exempt but probably cheaper to go the retention route.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,152 ✭✭✭mrslancaster


    There must be lots of alterations to the fronts of properties with no pp. Was this homeowner just unlucky that the council spotted his house or did someone report it?
    In our area, driveways have been widened, bay windows added, sheds in front gardens, velux windows to the front, boats and mobiles parked in driveways for years. Rarely see pp signs unless it’s a big job. Also see a lot of front canopies and no pp sign, so they must be exempt. Is a canopy similar to a porch?




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,899 ✭✭✭ozmo


    I guess rules are there to stop this kind of joke storyline from happening irl.
    I know his is not as bad - but its probably still the odd one out on a row of neat houses now (I dont know actual house location)
    - He just needs follow rules or apply for exemption properly.

    image.png

    “Roll it back”



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 72 ✭✭quantum_technician


    Looks a lot like some of the rows of houses in Irishtown



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 46,885 ✭✭✭✭muffler


    That is the famous Coronation street and the even more famous Rovers Return pub can be seen at the far end of the street.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,329 ✭✭✭The Student


    I know for a fact if you have altered the front of a property that requires planning permission if not obtained when the work is undertaken it will be required should you wish to sell the property.



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 42,319 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    Planning Enforcement act on complaints. So someone reported it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,703 ✭✭✭Kaisr Sose


    Two whys here

    1. Why have IT and other sources ran a story containing incorrect facts? If I was SDCC I would be getting my legal team to write to them asking for the article to be corrected.

    2. Why are SDCC choosing to be selective in what they choose to inspect or enforce? I have personal experience of a building extension that does not comply with the retention permission granted with very specific conditions. 6 year later, SDCC will not enforce their grant of permission.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,385 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    I know what you said. It didn't make sense, hence my question.
    The above reply suggest you are misunderstanding what actually happened..

    have councils acting against it's CO2 reduction policies…

    By extension, this also means that councils must do likewise, which objecting to insulation clearly is not

    This is where you are getting mixed up. The council haven't acted against the policy. They are simply following the law.
    The council also haven't objected to the insulation. They haven't suggested there is any issue with it. They simply haven't granted it as the homeowner has not managed to lodge a valid application.

    By extension, this also means that councils must do likewise, which objecting to insulation clearly is not.

    The high court ruled that ABP should be prioritise climate law when considering applications.
    In order for the council to do the same there has to be an application. The above doesn't suggest that planning can be skipped.

    If the council were preventing planning being granted for EWI, then I'd agree the government needs to step in with an exemption. But the council is not doing that, so there is no need for the government to step in.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,034 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    The council is reacting to a complaint, which from this thread seems likely to be based on the visual appearance - lack of faux brick.

    My hunch is that the rejection isn't really about the standard of the drawings, it's about the appearance. If that turns out to be the case, then I'd think their rejection will be considered by government to not be in the interest of their aims. Complying with visual appearance requirements that adds costs will will deter people from external insulation. The upgrading of older buildings to a heat pump viable state is already heinously expensive, without busy bodies piling on aesthetics related costs.

    Where I am, the aesthetic meddling is not about brick finishes, it's about swathes of natural stone. Good luck making that compatible with external insulation and not driving up the cost.

    The Limerick council rejection of the solar panels was also on the basis of aesthetics. It's pretty clear the government does not think visual appearance trumps their CO2 aspirations.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 46,885 ✭✭✭✭muffler


    You don't seem to understand the planning and enforcement procedures. The site inspection would have been carried out long before a drawing was ever submitted.



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