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homeowner in dublin being pursued over external insulation

  • 03-03-2025 10:07AM
    #1
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 52,453 CMod ✭✭✭✭


    this is not an issue i've heard of before - in case it's paywalled, a chap in kilnamanagh wrapped the outside of his house (availing of a government grant too) and was informed by SDCC that it violated planning law - but have twice refused retention permission and have ordered him to remove it or face a financial penalty (i assume the jail time would follow if he refused).

    https://www.irishtimes.com/ireland/housing-planning/2025/03/03/dublin-homeowner-insulation-sustainable-energy-council-planning-permission/

    anyone else heard of anything like this? the look of his house has not changed much, compared to the other houses in the shot so i'm wondering why retention permission was refused.



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Comments

  • #2
    SteM
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,273 ✭✭✭SteM


    It was up on the Journal too

    https://www.thejournal.ie/insulation-dublin-homes-6632481-Mar2025/

    Apparently the letter he received from SDCC says if he doesn't get approval then a team will be sent out to remove it.

    My mum lives in a council estate and all of the non-privately owned houses on the estate where retrofitted with heat pumps and external insulation last year. Weird driving through the estate and you can see who owns their home and which houses are still owned by the council, the outsides look totally different.



  • #3
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 52,453 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    are they legally allowed enter a private property to do that? would they need a warrant?

    here's a detail the irish times and the journal don't agree on:

    While he has applied for retention planning permission twice since first being alerted to this, he has been refused both times.

    Ryan has applied for planning permission to retain the installation, but it has yet to be accepted as a valid permission by the local council.

    i assume the journal mean 'valid application'?



  • #4
    dathi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,440 ✭✭✭dathi


    bottom half of his house was redbrick and now isnt if council is involved it is because of complaint from one of his neighbours



  • #5
    10-10-20
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,951 ✭✭✭10-10-20


    I was going to post the same here @magicbastarder as I was wondering the same. I initially wondered whether he was in fact the owner of the house, but all indications point to him being such (such as receiving the grant), so I presume it's not an ownership issue.

    It has just appeared on the Indo now too as I type this:

    https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/i-was-just-trying-to-be-eco-friendly-homeowner-warned-he-could-go-to-jail-if-he-doesnt-remove-external-insulation/a1922444373.html



  • #6
    looksee
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,736 ✭✭✭✭looksee


    The porch extension a couple of doors down makes a much more significant change to the look of the houses but presumably it got planning permission. The main difference I can see is the shape of the windows - which I don't find attractive - but the council is complaining about the insulation?

    What is the big deal about all the houses looking identical anyway? I think established neighbourhoods that have developed little quirks and differences look much more appealing that a row of identical fronts.

    How can there be on the one hand a government grant and on the other a complaint about planning? Generally I am in favour of planning regulations but this does not make a lot of sense.



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  • #7
    ixoy
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 18,043 Mod ✭✭✭✭ixoy


    Something odd here. Loads of houses have gotten wraps and I've never seen a planning notification for them, including when the appearance changed.



  • #8
    10-10-20
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,951 ✭✭✭10-10-20


    And the oddest thing is that there are at least two houses on that particular road with external insulation… I wonder are they both being treated in the same way?

    I have a feeling that it's due to the way that they didn't retain the redbrick at the lower floor - I bet that's the issue here.

    image.png


  • #9
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Something seriously amiss. I'd bet anything that all the council are doing is seeking retention. Get it in and it'll be ok I'd imagine. Yes more than likely to do with the red brick. That should have been pumped rather than wrapped.

    Madness whatever the reason.



  • #10
    SteM
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,273 ✭✭✭SteM


    Was just looking at a house across the road that has external insulation and they left the red brick on the lower half of the house in place. I wonder were they advised to do that by the insulating company, must ask the next time I see one of them.



  • #11
    10-10-20
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,951 ✭✭✭10-10-20


    Digging into this further, both retention applications to SDCC (18th Nov 24 and 20th Dec 24) were invalid for a host of issues due to missing data or issues with drawings.



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  • #12
    pale rider
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 428 ✭✭pale rider


    the house looks great, I don’t see the issue and can’t understand being refused twice for retention but the devil is in the detail, there simply must be more to it than covering over the lower red brick.



  • #13
    Alun
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,549 ✭✭✭✭Alun


    Our estate consists of bungalows where the front aspect is red brick and all other walls are rendered. One bungalow in the estate had EWI installed a couple of years ago and they wrapped it all 4 external walls but on the front they rendered it with a red brick coloured render and inscribed/painted the mortar lines over it. I haven't looked at it close up, but from a distance you wouldn't be able to tell unless you knew it had been done. Other houses in the estate have had EWI done as well but they've not done the front, presumably pumped if not done previously.



  • #14
    10-10-20
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,951 ✭✭✭10-10-20


    image.png

    That's part of the initial submitted retention request… showing a lack of formality and adherence to process



  • #15
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123226934#Comment_123226934

    Which for something so small is silly. Surely a planner can just go out and have a look for themselves. It really is red tape and bureaucracy gone mad.

    I'd imagine if he leaves it, does nothing, enforcement won't happen.



  • #16
    10-10-20
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,951 ✭✭✭10-10-20


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123226944#Comment_123226944

    The first application appears to have been self-generated, the second appears to have been the installer on behalf of the customer. From the Council's point of view all of that data has to be correctly stated within the application, otherwise they lead themselves open to all sorts of accusations. I'd agree that it's black and white for a reason.



  • #17
    The Student
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,329 ✭✭✭The Student


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123226906#Comment_123226906

    It is the missing the red brick effect.



  • #18
    10-10-20
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,951 ✭✭✭10-10-20


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123226963#Comment_123226963

    Do you have a link or source? It might be mentioned in some of the paywalled articles which I can't see.



  • #19
    noodler
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,410 ✭✭✭✭noodler


    i had no idea you'd need any kind of council permission for an external wrap

    Also, what an insane level of intrusion from neighbors and the council if this is facade related.



  • #20
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 52,453 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    maybe there's other issues between him and his neighbours - look at the fuss over the fairly low key bike bunker someone put in their front garden in clontarf.



  • #21
    The Student
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,329 ✭✭✭The Student


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123226967#Comment_123226967

    I am from the area and its what's being said, also the forms from what I understand were not completed correctly for the retention application. I have not noticed any other house in the area who has altered the appearance of the outside of the properties. IE the properties look exactly the same with the exception of the insulation extending a bit more than the original wall.



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  • #22
    Ezeoul
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,722 ✭✭✭Ezeoul


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123226916#Comment_123226916

    I agree, something amiss here. A few of my neighbours have had external insulation done and all but one covered up red brick or stone facade. One of them who has covered theirs up is a SD County Councillor!

    Was considering doing it myself before next winter.

    Will be watching this with interest.



  • #23
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,783 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123226926#Comment_123226926

    Doesn't this totally negate the value of the external wrap, if you leave a large section unwrapped like this?


    I understand that there are options for wraps of red brick appearance, either the old 'stone cladding' style cover or the painted on look (forgive my non technical language).



  • #24
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 52,453 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123226982#Comment_123226982

    He has been refused retention, twice.

    it appears the IT got this wrong. he has not been refused retention, his applications were not deemed valid.



  • #25
    Ezeoul
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,722 ✭✭✭Ezeoul


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123226991#Comment_123226991

    Yes, I saw that and I edited it out, thanks.



  • #26
    ted1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,290 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    the fight is rarely about the fight. There’s something else happening here



  • #27
    Mellor
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,386 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058398963/homeowner-in-dublin-being-pursued-over-external-insulation

    Houses where brick the the ground floor street elevation. This obviously required planning. This is really simple stuff.

    We've flagged similar on this very forum where posters insist planning is not required because the installer told them so. As this case shows, the installers are nowhere to be seen when the council tell you it need to come down to get retention.

    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123226902#Comment_123226902

    Nothing odd, the planning exemptions are really clear. Changing the appearance requires planning.

    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123226967#Comment_123226967

    Not sure if a source is needed, there is no applicable exemption. He simply needs to apply for planning permission.



  • #28
    10-10-20
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,951 ✭✭✭10-10-20


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123226874#Comment_123226874

    Only seeing that you posted this now @dathi.



  • #29
    miamee
    Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Regional East Moderators, Regional North West Moderators Posts: 12,778 Mod ✭✭✭✭miamee


    I wonder if someone took a notion to paint their red brick a different colour would it generate the same interest from the council? Seems a bit wild, if it was a newer estate with a management company I would be less surprised but that doesn't seem to be the case here.



  • #30
    noodler
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,410 ✭✭✭✭noodler


    Hope he gets a good outcome.



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  • #31
    cnocbui
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,039 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    The government should step in as they did in the case of that Polish woman in Limerick who put up a large area of solar panels, only to have the council tell her to take them off. The government then passed legislation removing the ability of councils to veto solar panels, then went even further some years later.

    The same should happen with external insulation if the government wants to promulgate the use of heat pumps.



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