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Russia-Ukraine War (continuing)

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,764 ✭✭✭Apiarist


    Exactly, it was a pre-planned attack on Zelenskyy, designed to give Trump an excuse to blame Ukraine for Trump's failure to "end the war in 24 hours/100 days".

    However, Zelenskyy did make a mistake by speaking to Trump in English. He should have used a translator, that would give him time to react more calmly to Vance's and Trump's bulling tactics.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,321 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    and nothing to do with the fact that a pro Putin stooge comes from nowhere with bags of cash flooding social media trying to get a foothold in Romania? Riiiight…

    Note too btw, how actual coups are attempted(and are far more likely to work) and both the "West" and the Soviets learned this in Cold War 1. That is; get individuals friendly to your cause/in your pocket to take power, either by force(military juntas), or through influencing democratic elections, NOT through mass movements of people. Oh they can certainly be exploited(historically by financial backing and sending your troops in to "support them"), but they're notoriously difficult to aim and control.

    Many worry about Artificial Intelligence. I worry far more about Organic Idiocy.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,818 ✭✭✭EltonJohn69


    it really is going to be nukes for all, it’s the only sane thing to do now.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 186 ✭✭tarvis


    time to face facts It’s rUSsiA now - or actually R u s S I a - Trump and MAGA now out in the open. Hope America is pleased.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,083 ✭✭✭aidanodr


    At least SOME bit of potential good news on this front. Glad to see EUROPE taking this on. Ukraine using Starlink on the frontlines is a clear and present danger to them now

    "It’s happening—Europe is building its own Starlink by leveraging existing infrastructure like GovSatCom, Eutelsat, Hispasat, and SES while redefining the scope of IRIS²."



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,790 ✭✭✭yagan


    I had to misfortune to overhear Neil Prenderville while in a shop in Cork and his great wisdom was that Zelensky doesn't want peace and poor donald was only trying to help.

    He really did sprout all the Putin lines while excluding actual facts.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 104 ✭✭Quango Unchained


    Zelenskyy should have stood down when Trump was elected.

    I'd like to see Trump make belittling jibes to Klitschko about how he's dressed.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,078 ✭✭✭TokTik


    Zelenskys press officer had her head in his hands when he was speaking



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,004 ✭✭✭Sunny Disposition


    You really would have to be very naive to think Trump and Vance behaved in that way spontaneously, without it being planned and discussed beforehand. It still didn't go very well for them, no doubt it appealed to their base, but not at all to the centreground.

    The US is now amoral, unfortunately some in Europe are still asleep and won't accept America can't be relied on in the short or long term and it needs to tool up very, very quickly.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,551 ✭✭✭Deub


    Thinking: “Poor guy is fighting for his country when these 2 muppets want to make show and disrespect him”.

    I would have thought the same I I was in her shoes tbh.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,597 ✭✭✭McFly85


    In fairness I think Europe is waking up to that, along with other democratic nations like Canada and Australia.

    We will ramp up arms production and Ukrainian support but we will never treat the US as anything but a friend, and our leaders will always have an olive branch extended to the White House, which is absolutely the correct thing to do. For one, it forces Trump to publicly abandon long standing friendships without much cause other than his love for Putin(an angry Europe easily feeds into his false narrative of Europe taking the US for a ride). And two, this administration will not be there forever, and whoever is there in 28 would hopefully be open to a more constructive relationship, which Europe obviously would be.

    Trump is burning down the states political infrastructure, we don’t need to help to put more fuel on the fire.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,017 ✭✭✭jmreire


    Zelensky was deliberately provoked to the extent that keeping his cool as much as he did was some feat. Even if he had sat like doll on his chair throughout the meeting, the would still have found something to pin on him. It was a planned attack designed to give Trump, Vance and Putin the excuse to pull out of aiding Ukraine..and from their viewpoint, getting rid of Zelenski alltogether.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,246 ✭✭✭Paddigol


    Calm down and follow the conversation. I was clearly referring to EU and Europe.

    But as you bring it up, if the US forced all its tax exiles to return home to high taxes, its own economy would be f**ked by the likes of China and India and their rock bottom costs. Social media punditry mightn't like to hear it, but economics is a bit more nuanced than "we are a one trick pony". How's the US motor industry doing? Is isolationism the route we should all be going down to achieve great success?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,555 ✭✭✭✭Sleepy


    I know it's a fantasy worthy of a James Bond or John Wick movie but will the world ever be presented with a better chance at world peace for the price of a single warhead?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,062 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    No he didn't and the bulk of world opinion is that he was ambushed by two hillbillies. King Charles thought it so outrageous he slipped in a meeting with Zelensky before a previously scheduled meeting with Kraznov to troll him, likely because he felt embarrassed at having extended an invitation to him at all, after that massive diplomacy failure on the part of two minor characters from Deliverance. Charles was clearly showing the world where his sympathies lay in that outrageous staged insulting of a foreign leader.

    Just look at how stupid Vance's hit points were - "have you said thanks once" - The Trump administration has given no aid to Ukraine whatsoever - all of the aid has come from Biden's administration. Thanks for calling Zelensky a dictator, thanks for lying about the amount of US aid, thanks for suggesting extorting $500B worth of minerals for the handful of clapped out rusty beans they were given by someone else? Then to start berating him about conscription - what brain-dead hypocrisy is that when the US had massive levels of conscription in WW2 and throughout the Vietnam war era?

    It was entirely orchestrated from the moment they sat down with that incredibly obvious staged criticism of his clothing from the boyfriend of one of Trumps hand-picked cretins.

    In fact, everything was so obviously staged, stupid and unsubtle it was pure Russian 'vranyo', so Putrid or someone in the FSB likely wrote that script. Something so obviously ludicrous we are not meant to believe it, just read the subtext that the big boys are putting the boot in, in public view for the world to see, and no one can do anything about it. Putrid's demonstration to the Orcs that the Whitehouse is his - 'look they are even doing vranyo now, like good little Orc puppets should. Witness the power of your leader.'



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,790 ✭✭✭yagan


    Going forward one thing no one is in doubt about is that Trump will not be helping against Putin, even if it's bad news for the US arms industry.

    As European nations retool to be militarily self sufficient in a regional setting this will have a massive impact on the economy of scale for the US defense industry to sustain their current global presence.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,246 ✭✭✭Paddigol


    He's a literal wa**er so I wouldn't place too much stock in what he spews, although doubtless plenty idiots will lap it up.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 235 ✭✭OrangeBadger


    Maybe we are being to Harsh on Vance.....the beard......it is controlling him 😮

    https://www.instagram.com/reel/DGtmiRrN21T/?igsh=MTN6cTVydTRqYXh5dg==



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,062 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,555 ✭✭✭✭Sleepy


    @cnocbui in relation to King Charles's meeting with Zelenskyy there was a very subtle nuance to the invitation that I don't think many have picked up on. Sandringham House is Charles' private country retreat rather than a state palace. It is very rarely, if ever, used for events of state or to host foreign dignataries.

    When you consider the significance the British Royal Family place upon protocol, I think it's a reasonable assumption that this could very well be read as a personal expression of support from the King. It's a stark contrast to the box ticking diplomacy he'll be engaging in should the invitation given to Trump last week not be revoked (as we're already seeing numerous public petitions calling for).



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,363 ✭✭✭Field east


    replacing Starlink RIGHT NOW/IMMEDIATELY is the very first thing that the ‘ Group of the Willing’ - who met in London on Sunday last- should be doing. Hopefully it will be a joint venture between a number of them. The group would want to be careful as to who can use /has access to it as some of the EU members might ‘sell on’ its benefits.!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 516 ✭✭✭poop emoji


    Beyond reasonable doubt it was setup, Trump admitted as much with his “this is great tv” and “I front of American media” lines

    The question is

    • did Trump/Vance think of this ambush (which is like something from Sopranos but less civilised)
    • Or did the Russians government give em the idea to try humiliate Zelensky in front on media


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,836 ✭✭✭Nermal


    Why is US being 'happy to exploit a large scale pre-existing movement' somehow OK, so long as they didn't 'kick it off'?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,918 ✭✭✭Brief_Lives


    unreal, just another soul-seller.

    Thanks for posting.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 871 ✭✭✭Baba Yaga


    just give yer man vance a jar of doctored sudocream to slap on donnies nappy rash…job done both and a lot cheaper then a warhead!

    (im expecting black helicoptors to be swarming overhead at any moment for even suggesting this…disclaimer…no nappies or arses were harmed in the making of this post)


    "They gave me an impossible task,one which they said I wouldnt return from...."

    "You are him…the one they call the "Baba Yaga"…

    yo! donnie vonshitzinpants,vlad putin,benji netanyahu..you sirs are the skidmarks on the jocks of humanity!!!



  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 14,567 Mod ✭✭✭✭johnnyskeleton


    I would say that Trump and Vance messed it up so much.

    All they had to do was keep silent and then Zelensky would have to sign a deal that, on it's face, is entirely in favour of the US with very little to nothing in favour of Ukraine other than vague assurances. It would have been the best deal ever.

    But Vance just couldn't keep his big mouth shut. He had to bang on about his Kremlin taking points. He should've known that when speaking to an honest and honourable man like Zelensky that the latter would have no choice but to correct the record.

    Then he and Trump got really emotional and unprofessional because a) someone they mistakenly consider to be their inferior was talking back at them and b) they sensed that their one way deal was slipping away from them. The deal was cancelled and they were straight away trying to explain to everyone how Zelensky was so rude that they had to cancel the deal. This is of course a complete non sequitor, given that cancelling the deal is not punishing Zelensky, but letting him off.

    Bottom line, Trump claimed that he could get a deal and that he was an expert negotiator. He utterly failed to secure a deal and showed the world how much of an amateur negotiator he truly was.

    The only interpretation of that meeting that is true is that Trump and Vance failed in their mission to get a deal.

    Now, afterwards, they were so upset that they have started talking about cutting all aid to Ukraine etc etc. That is obviously very bad for Ukraine. But the point is this - it isn't the negotiations or the meeting that went badly for Ukraine, it's the irrational manner in which Trump and Vance threw their toys out of the pram like bold children and sought to punish Ukraine to distract from their own failures that hurts Ukraine.

    The reality is this - even if the deal was signed, Trump and Vance would have cut Ukraine off anyway. That was always their plan. In fact, by showing his steely determination and moral fortitude, Zelensky has put himself in a better position to get a more comprehensive and express deal from America. And if he fails in that, it only proves that Trump was going to betray him anyway.

    Since you ask if other people have watched it - I watched it live on Sky News and have been pouring over it ever since. I am at an absolute loss to know what else Zelensky was supposed to do. It is not a rule of protocol that visitors to the white house cant tell the truth. In fact, the opposite used to be case under serious presidents.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,062 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    Israel is actively trying to get the Orcs reinstated in Syria because they think it will keep Syria weak and because they are really scared of Turkey gaining a major presence there. The lesser of two evils.

    Which makes Israel very popular in Orcistan at the moment.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,939 ✭✭✭ArthurDayne


    I still remain pretty convinced though that, while Trumpists will sing the praises of Trump muscling the Europeans into greater self-sufficiency, I do wonder how this serves American interests in the long run. Regardless of what they say about withdrawing from the world's problems, there is no question that the US seeks to retain its hegemony. The North Atlantic partnership with Europe is critical to that — and Europe is strong and powerful enough to be a critical military, economic and strategic partner of the US, but as individual countries also weak enough to ensure that they will generally tend towards doing things that serve US interests too.

    Do the Americans actually want a stronger, united, better armed and self sufficient Europe that is capable of wielding greater leverage of its own — and therefore not as beholden to US interests? Somehow I doubt it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,007 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    In Romania a far right Presidential candidate came out of nowhere with a sudden Tiktok campaign. Predictably he is pro-Russian and anti-NATO. His acquaintances and bodyguards have reportedly been discovered with millions in cash. Putin is engaged in attempts to destabilise them (along with Moldova, etc)

    He is currently engaged in hybrid warfare against Europe as a whole. Again a reminder that nightly his state TV hosts talk of little else but invading European countries.

    Romania has been a NATO member for over 20 years. They can have NATO bases. NATO is not a threat to Russia, it's only a threat to Putin's ambitions to invade other countries.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 516 ✭✭✭poop emoji


    The interview with Finnish ambassador (I think?) on Pat Kenny this morning was interesting

    Some point they made:

    • while like all European countries we hoped Russia would become a normal democracy, we had no illusions and kept our defence spending up
    • There was overwhelming population support in Finland to join NATO which only grown since
    • while militarily neutral they are not neutral about losing values they share with other European countries of freedom, democracy and rule of law

    And the most interesting point made was “Trump fancies himself as master deal maker, but deals and agreements require strong rule of law to enforce, there’s no deal making in a world without rules”



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