Russia-Ukraine War (continuing)

They did look stupid especially when Trump tried to correct not say but correct Zelenski on when they war started, that got Vance involved because President dumb dumb was making himself look foolish again.

Then they tired to bully him and making up lies like he never said thanks which has been proven beyond doubt at this stage to be very untrue.

And this going out live not only brought European leaders to come out en masse to support Zelenski on social media but also to provide Ukraine with more aid and has brought protests against the VP that he can't even enjoy a holiday

O and I forget opened the door for europe and Ukraine to be the ones leading any ceasefire negotiations with unanimous support.

So there was a **** up and it was trump and his lap dog doing it.

Your post feels like you are victim blaming.

Choosing to interject and start banging on about 2014-2015 will be seen as one of the biggest missteps in history

If I get it right, when you are being bullied, just shut up and accept being treated like you are worth nothing. Do you think that is the attitude that keeps you fighting for your survival?

He was there to sign an agreement but somehow railed against Vance for suggesting diplomacy to end the war. If you read the script, there is no natural flow to it. Zelenskyy wanted to say these things and just launched into it basically unprompted, which is an absolutely wild thing to do on TV in the White House before signing an agreement. It was absolutely an unforced error.

J.D. Vance: For four years, in the United States of America, we had a president who stood up in press conferences and talked tough about Vladimir Putin, and then Putin invaded Ukraine and destroyed a significant chunk of the country. The path to peace and the path to prosperity is maybe engaging in diplomacy. We tried the pathway of Joe Biden, of thumping our chest and pretending that the president of the United States’ words mattered more than the president of the United States’ actions. What makes America a good country is America engaging in diplomacy. That’s what President Trump is doing.

Volodymyr Zelensky: He [Putin] occupied various parts of Ukraine in 2014. During that time, it was President Obama, then President Trump, then President Biden, and now it’s President Trump and he will stop him [Putin]. But during 2014, nobody stopped him. He just occupied and took. He killed people. From 2014 till 2022, the situation was the same—people have been dying on the contact line and nobody stopped him. We had a lot of conversations with him, including a bilateral conversation. As a new president in 2019, I signed with him a cease-fire deal alongside Macron and Merkel. All of them told me that he will never go. We also signed a gas contract with him. But after all of that, he broke the cease-fire. He killed our people, and he didn’t exchange prisoners. We signed the exchange of prisoners, but he didn’t do it. What kind of diplomacy, J.D., are you speaking about? What do you mean?

That was the start of the confrontation. I've no idea how you think the above is required to not "just shut up and accept being treated like you are worth nothing". Vance was attacking Biden, not Zelenskyy.

Norway, hold my beer

He was attacked even before he went into the Oval Office. It WAS an ambush. This will go down as the most grotesque denigration of the American presidential office in history. Already tens of millions of Americans are outraged.

But @Wibbs that wasnt just Kremlin 'spin', she was there and so were numerous other politicians US & EU and she did in fact say those things in that infamous phone call where they discussed who should be installed as leader next. Just because Russia says or claims a thing doesnt automatically make it 'unhappen' or untrue.

Interesting read here on some more 'talking points' and in particular about US goals. It wasnt just Trump who fkd Ukraine.

https://time.com/7207661/bidens-ukraine-win-zelensky-loss/

I agree generally with this post. Just a note, Musk can't ever be POTUS. Not born there. He will of course remain as a malign influence and bad actor. Vance is the danger man though.

By the time you add up all the money likes of Norway spent on Ukraine which deals with Russian Nazis more efficiently than F35s

Norways defence spending is way above 2%

I see Musk and Trump and trying to change how US gdp is measured now

European countries should now then put Ukraine aid as defence spending % of their GDP

Tis only fair

IMO it is "Ukraine poked the Bear" again (i.e. diplomacy was not tried, Ukraine provoked Russia, and is responsible for Putin invading it) along with criticism of Biden. Kremlin talking points in the mouth of Vance.

Why does the US Vice President start with Russian points and a rant about the previous President and his policies in a public meeting with leader of Ukraine anyway (a leader he knows has reason to be grateful to Biden)?

Zelenskyy is a supplicant to the US and badly wants something from Trump, but don't see why he has to sit and say nothing to correct lies, any more than Macron should take the lies from this admin. about low levels of European aid to Ukraine cf the US, or Starmer accept lies about free speech (or freedom generally) in the UK.

Anyway, why stop there? I found this article with the rest of it that followed afterwards. It really was the most incredibly boorish and ugly display from Trump and Vance. There's no excuse for it. I don't see how anyone can justify the US President and Vice President behaving this way with leader of another country in public (still a US ally no less - though for how much longer?).

I listened to pieces of it, but found it a tough watch. It was revolting, and made my skin crawl.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/feb/28/trump-zelenskyy-meeting-transcript

And, if Trump and Vance were better diplomats, politicians, or even just bog standard human beings, they would have recognised it was becoming a shitshow and stopped it - for everyone's sake!

is it though?

It’s fact that if even a fraction of that happened in a western state with Russian influence we would be shouting manipulation disinformation hybrid warfare from the rooftops. In fact that was just done and had an election annulled. On the most dubious of justifications. See Romania. Of course nothing to do with the massive NATO base being built there atm.