Hamas strike on Israel - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

That is usually how things end eventually but War Criminals should be punished at the same time. Otherwise '' Never Again'' will become ''Again and Again''.

Meanwhile, in the occupied West Bank, it's business as usual -

"Two children a week are killed in the West Bank. Two cameras recorded the circumstances of one such death

So far this year about two children a week have been killed, slightly over the average rate for 2024 when 93 children were killed. Human rights workers fear the numbers may continue to increase as the IDF brings Gaza techniques to the West Bank, ejecting tens of thousands of people from their homes, flattening districts and loosening further the “rules of engagement” covering when a soldier is permitted to open fire."

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/mar/01/footage-shows-last-moments-boy-12-killed-in-west-bank

The following news items are available free from Haaretz. They are reproduced here for the convenience of those not wishing to share their email address with Haaretz.

Notably, Israelis accuse Netanyahu of sabotaging talks for the 2nd stage of the cease-fire.

Haaretz:

Reuters reported that Hamas said on Saturday that it rejected Israel's "formulation" of extending the first stage of the cease-fire in Gaza, on the day it was set to expire. Hamas spokesman Hazem Qassem told Al-Araby TV that there were no current talks for a second stage of the cease-fire. The second stage is meant to include steps leading to a permanent end to the war.

An Israeli delegation in Cairo tried and failed to reach an extension of the cease-fire deal's first stage by an additional 42 days.

Einav Zanguaker, the mother of the hostage Matan Zanguaker, accused Netanyahu on Saturday of sending a "fake delegation with a fake proposal" to Cairo "to sabotage the deal and then blame Hamas."

In an interview on Israeli Channel 12 News' "Uvda" program, released hostage Eli Sharabi said his conditions in Hamas captivity were directly impacted by the conditions of Palestinian prisoners as depicted in Israeli media. Sharabi said the Hamas captors "told us – '[Palestinian] prisoners are not receiving food, so you won't eat. Our prisoners are being beaten, so we'll beat you.' That was the constant threat."

According to Israeli intelligence sources, the aid convoys [in Gaza] are distributing their shipments, the looting has stopped and the Hamas police are enforcing law and order with a firm hand. As with the first round of fighting, the next round won't be a walk in the park. Netanyahu, who is well aware of all this, is cynically fanning the threat of war while continuing to abuse the army's top ranks at his pleasure." – Amos Harel

IDF soldiers serving near the West Bank settlement of Beit Aryeh have expelled Palestinian families living in the area, a move which the IDF says was done on the soldiers' own initiative in breach of protocol. Residents say they believe the attempt to expel them is linked to an unauthorized settler outpost established two years ago in the northern West Bank, Havat Avihai.

Seems Israel needs more 1000lb bombs and bulldozers. I wonder what for?

Israel continues to renege on the Lebanon ceasefire deal and they are supporting Russian military bases in Syria.

Haaretz:

The Trump administration formally advanced more than $3 billion in weapons sales to Israel. The three individual sales include $2.04 billion in munitions; a separate $675.7 million sale including 1,000-pound bombs and JDAM kits; and a $295 million sale covering Caterpillar D9 bulldozers. It appears that the new sale, like the preceding one, was advanced without the approval of relevant Congressional committees.

Lebanese President Joseph Aoun said on Friday in an interview with Asharq Al-Awsat that Lebanon is in dialogue with France and the Trump administration "to pressure Israel to withdraw from the five points" where Israeli forces have remained in southern Lebanon.

Israel is lobbying the United States for Russia to keep its military bases in Syria, to keep the country weak and decentralized, and to counter Turkey's growing influence in the country, four sources familiar with the efforts said.

You know I read your posts and links and mostly agree with them. You're obviously heavily invested in your beliefs and disgusted by it all.

Sometimes I question your stats in my own mind and wonder at the way you phrase your posts. Like comparing the number of deaths above one could ask, would you be happy if the numbers were more even. Like comparing the number of Israeli children murdered to the Palestinian children murdered. 1 on either side is too many imo.

I'm sure your motives are to bring a sense of the disproportionate Israeli response. But in looking at it if you were a neutral or just reading it could be taken that you don't believe Hamas or Hezbolah or whoever is responsible for the israeli deaths are as bad.

Imo they're as bad and set out to inflict as much damage as possible from the means they have, its just that they haven't the means the Israelis have. And just as bad because the surely realise they are going to cause the response on their own people Israel have shown. Either that or they didn't realise the Israelis were capable of being as ruthless as them?

Not at all, my friend, however flooding the thread with I would suggest is 'fuel for the fire' is not not a good idea.

Multiple tranches of similar posts could lead a person to conclude that one might have 'skin in the game' which of of course I know is definitely not true as you have been very fair minded when expressing your personal views.

There is a lot of instability in that area, I include Iran, Iraq, Yemen etc Afghanistan too and the problems are not isolated to Hamas and Israel.

The UN is where these issues should be decided but it is palpably unable to do so, and 'vested interests' get involved politically and on the battleground.

I sympathise totally with the innocents who victims of all this but unfortunately that's the way wars are being fought in modern times.

Hopefully sense will prevail sometime soon…..

It means that while you may be totally innocent we don't believe that you're totally innocent therefore we're going to take away your freedom until you can prove that you're totally innocent.

That's a presumption of guilt not innocence.

And they will take away your freedom for weeks/months on the presumption that you are guilty.

I mean, your logic requires that nobody on any defence team anywhere in the UK or Ireland has ever had the stunning insight you've just demonstrated.

But ok, that's probably it.

How is posting factual data, researched by a genuine news organization within Israel (who by all accounts is, courageously I might add, not engaging in false narratives or fake news in a country moving ever toward extremism), adding fuel to the fire?

There are plenty of fake narratives on this thread which attempt to legitimize or downplay the mass murder and displacement of millions of people, and you give all of them a free pass and go after a poster who is actually backing up their pov with something factually substantial. It is bizarre when they are arguing against mass murdering civilians and the free reign being given to do this.

It may look like he/she (and many on here) are exclusively castigating Israel, but in a conflict where Israel has killed 95% of people - any castigation is not even in proportion to the killings, that poster regularly criticises Hamas in the harshest terms.

Anyone in this thread is free to prove that poster wrong or ague their point of view by using their own sources, including you.

Why not add something that actually contribute to the thread rather than trying to chip away at facts being posted whilst giving lies free reign?

Heartbreaking for the Palestinian civilians, the hostages and their families.

It must be doubly hard for the families of hostages having seen the recent releases and hearing first hand accounts of how they were treated. That is how their captive loved ones are still being treated.

It has been flagged for some weeks now that Netanyahu was always going to renege on the deal. And bear in mind, they continue to renege on the deal with Lebanon. Israel is untrustworthy.

Hamas (as much as I despise them) have at least offered to release all the final hostages (living and dead) in one go and as Leo have confirmed they will "not be in charge" in Gaza.

How Netanyahu cannot accept that is beyond me. And the Israeli people also see it.

But as you say, it is the politicians etc. playing with all those civilian lives. The inhumanity of man.

Israel violating the ceasefire AGAIN..... Probably Hamas and the Palestinians fault again no doubt...

Politics.

Next elections are due October 2026 unless the coalition Govt collapses.

Netanyahu is trying to save his political skin. On the one hand he's under pressure from hostage families and wider Israeli society but on the other, right wing members of the Govt (e.g. Ben Gvir, Smotrich) want the Palestinians wiped out and Gaza annexed.

When you find yourself on the same side as Trump, Netanyahu, Kim and Putin then the penny has to drop and you must know you are on the wrong side.

How many UN condemnations or resolutions have Israel put forward or supported in this time?

It's easy to cry foul about the decisions of other nations when you outright refuse to engage or take those others seriously