Hamas strike on Israel - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

Why is Netanyahu so despised by Israelis?

"While the country took on orange colors, and the broken-hearted populace followed the funeral procession of Shiri, Ariel, and Kfir Bibas to bestow last honors on them, Netanyahu, who was in court, tried to appropriate the event for his own purposes... For Netanyahu, the bodies of Bibas' loved ones – civilians kidnapped in their pajamas on his watch and murdered in captivity – are national assets he uses for propaganda purposes, for public diplomacy, or for manipulations in court, according to his needs." – Haaretz Editorial

All this propaganda really means nothing until both parties decide that there are no winners in this conflict .

Flooding the site with propaganda really shows a closed mind and no real knowledge of the complex issues involved.

absolutely

I don’t agree, but the best answers are as I outlined in previous posts.

It’s really pointless metaphorically waving the Palestine flag and trying to stuff a point of view down people’s throats.

Only discussion and agreement between both protagonists can sort this stuff out, we should know this from our own experience.

Of course those in charge of giving orders, if they give orders of war crimes can be held responsible. Individual war crimes are committed by individuals, such as robberies rapes, thefts etc.

If someone is responsible for policies that are war crimes, then they can of course be held responsible. Slobodan Milosevic being an example.

Judging by posts here, there are plenty of people who have no knowledge of even the simplest of issues involved.

Justifying genocide, war crimes and the like for example. Even the murder of thousands of children.

I recall many many posts extolling the virtues of the "most moral army in the world" and the only "democratic nation in the Middle East". Both have been thoroughly challenged with mountains of evidence to the contrary.

The rebuttal evidence is simply nowhere to be seen. Is that because there isn't any?

I'm not sure what "propaganda" you're referring to - is that what the likes of Likud and Netanyahu pump out? Haaretz simply reports facts - and they entertain the odd opinion piece too. As do the BBC and RTE.

It's only propaganda to those who don't like the truth or it doesn't suit their own stance.

Plenty about Israel's War Crimes in this -

https://www.hrw.org/news/2024/11/14/israels-crimes-against-humanity-gaza

I’m afraid this thread is beginning to wind up like a ‘students Union’ debate.

It doesn’t achieve anything other than provide a vehicle for those to trawl the internet

for spurious backup of their own point of view.

Rather than address the issues maturely it seems they prefer to indulge in ‘Internet whataboutery’ of the most basic kind.

I know how it works.

The IDF have issued warnings that soldiers delete existing content from their social media and their devices and post no further material that indicates they have been involved in incidents that can be prosecuted as war crimes.

It interesting that the IDF are not prosecuting those individuals. Just warning them to not get caught.

Its not compulsory to post here or even read the posts.

But since you are are here, you clearly have some kind of interest and you are more than welcome to debate, discuss, argue etc. Its also clear that no-one here has any direct influence on events in Gaza, West Bank, East Jerusalem, Israel, Lebanon or Syria. Doesn't mean we can't debate it though. Perhaps if the debate here is more like a Student's Union in your opinion, perhaps you should look elsewhere for the kind of debate you prefer?

As for "spurious backup" - its very clear on reading the entire thread that any "spurious" information is quickly rebutted with sources/evidence from people who are very knowledgeable about the subjects in question.

Its clear to me that any evidence presented showing that the Israel Govt. and the IDF have crossed all the lines of humanity is met with scorn and accusations of "whataboutery", "spurious backup", "internet trawling" etc.

But the most interesting aspect is that rarely is any reputable counter evidence provided. Presumably it doesn't exist.

All that seems to happen when Israel is criticised is that outrage posts abound. Not because of what Israel has done, but because they have been called out for it.

Its telling to me that there are some who seem to take umbrage at posts detailing news items from Israel's oldest newspaper - Haaretz. And the critisism is actually not about the news items themselves but rather that the information is paywalled. Its not paywalled at all.

Pop over to the Haaretz website and subscribe to their daily newsletter - you will receive a free email detailing all the news items. You can further subscribe (by paying) to longer articles and opinion pieces if you wish. I don't pay Haaretz anything but I'm minded to because they are a very good source of independent news. And even that is telling - the Israeli Govt. has sanctioned them because they don't like what they are saying. Seems the truth hurts. A lot.

V good post

Very in-depth article (thanks for posting) and clearly showing why the ICJ did this:

(The ICJ) concluded that Israel should put an end to its illegal occupation of the Palestinian territories, desist from creating new settlements, and evacuate those already established. It further concluded that where Palestinians have lost land and property, that Israel should pay reparations.

The fact that a supposed "democratic State" chooses not to follow International Law is an utter disgrace.

It also seems from the report that the two IDF soldiers received nothing more than a slap on the wrist for throwing a famer and his family off his land and stealing his property, including food.

Until Israel starts adhering to International Law, they will be regarded by many as a Pariah and no better than the terrorists they claim to be fighting. And there are many Israelis who would agree with the sentiment - they are disgusted with the way their State conducts itself. It has even abandoned (and murdered) its own people - both on Oct 7th and not focusing on a deal to release the hostages.

''I know how it works'', '' I'm aware of how it works''.

And i'm all for it.

One might counter these arguments by stating the obvious.

Hamas and their proxies want to wipe Israel off the map, and Israel want to wipe Hamas out of existence.

That’s what’s being going on since especially since the October slaughter of Israeli civilians and long before that.

We have seen the results and I would suggest that instead of flooding the thread with all kinds of ‘claims ‘ that one might , just might, see that peace can only be achieved by dialogue in this case. The

That simple fact seems to be ignored in preference of what I would call a storm of whataboutery.