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DF Commission Report

1262729313236

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,266 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    For now, the project is a replacement programme, but really its going to take 10 years from now, so if the Army can be brought up to full strength in that time, then a decision could be made to expand the acquisition.

    Realistically the last of the Piranha IIIs have only begun their second life, post re-fit, so they will operate side-by-side, in whatever numbers, for many years.

    Its one reason why I favour the Piranha V to be selected.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,266 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    You're right about capacity being the only consideration on further ambition too.

    Even now we couldn't on-board LoA 2.5 due to lack of capacity, so rather than talking about LoA 3 in PfGs, they need to get the finger out on:

    • CHoD (And any legislation for the re-org)
    • Force re-org, service HQs, appoint OCs and defence staff, begin procuring the built infrastructure
    • Pension reform
    • Reserve structures to renew expert roles, in the NS particularly

    I do welcome the mentions in the PfG of the focus on building more much. more quality accommodation for personnel on base and also of setting up Reserve Units attached to the 3rd Level institutions. Both are aspects I've been hammering away on with a few government TDs and Ministers of my acquaintance.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,446 ✭✭✭roadmaster




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,345 ✭✭✭source


    No full minister, and not even a mention of who has the defence portfolio in any of the articles I've read so far.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,570 ✭✭✭sparky42


    It’s Harris, tacked on as an after thought to Foreign Affairs and Trade.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,446 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    Cant link the website but the Brief for the new minister is up. Some highlights include the new radar, PC9 replacement search to start and an issue with the air corps HEMS and its future operations and location. It would be interesting to see what thats about. Do the air corps want HSE to buy a HEMS fleet long tern and they fly them?

    The bit on HEMS:

    7.12 Air Ambulance

    The Air Corps provide a long standing emergency inter-hospital transfer service within Ireland
    and to the United Kingdom in support of the HSE. This service is underpinned by a SLA
    between the Department of Defence and the Department of Health, which formalises
    arrangements for the provision of the service by the Air Corps.

    In addition, the Air Corps also supports the HSE Emergency Aeromedical Support (EAS)
    service. This service commenced in June 2012 and was established, initially on a pilot basis,
    by agreement between the Departments of Defence and Department of Health. A permanent
    service was established following a Government decision in July 2015, subject to ongoing
    review in the context of ensuring a sustainable, long term service arrangement. In line with
    this Government decision, White Paper Project No.16 was undertaken to complete this review.

    The joint civil/military White Paper Project Team finalised the completed project report as of
    December 2024, on a partially disagreed basis. While a disagreed report is never the desired
    outcome for any project, the respective diverging a priorities of the Defences Forces and the
    Health stakeholders on the future location of the service was such that total consensus was not
    achieved.

    Not withstanding this, the completed report included a detailed analysis of the
    current service and proposed a series of other operational and administrative
    recommendations for future EAS provision.

    Going forward it is expected that the outstanding issue of future service location will be
    revisited by a dedicated working group comprising relevant Defence Forces and Department
    personnel in line with Government decisions and long terms plans to continue to the EAS
    service. In the interim, day to day operations will continue in the established manner out of
    Custume Barracks, Athlone.

    The Air Corps supports this service through the provision of a dedicated helicopter operating

    during daylight hours out of Custume Barracks, Athlone, with reserve support being provided

    by the Irish Coast Guard. Since being established, the Air Corps has performed over 4,236 EAS
    missions.

    Post edited by roadmaster on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,416 ✭✭✭Negative_G


    Why can you not link the page where the report is?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,266 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    He's right, the link won't copy correctly for some reason.

    Its on the gov.ie DoD main page anyway, scroll down a good bit.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,446 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/cbb90-2025-ministerial-brief/

    Its hard to put actual link for some reason but if you copy above in to a brozser it should work



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,416 ✭✭✭Negative_G


    Thank you



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  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,139 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    Meh. Even copy/paste of the text, let alone the link, isn't working for me.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,570 ✭✭✭sparky42


    they had an oopsie with redaction so I imagine it’s been taken down totally while they get around to fixing that…

    https://www.thejournal.ie/tanaiste-warned-that-tolerance-for-irelands-neutral-stance-may-run-out-in-eu-defence-matters-6607142-Jan2025/



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,285 ✭✭✭✭Esel
    Not Your Ornery Onager


    They could have asked Donald for an air drop of Sharpies…

    Not your ornery onager



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,446 ✭✭✭roadmaster




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,266 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    How does that even happen?!

    There was no need to release the MB in the first place, its not a public or statutory document. Talk about an unforced error 10 different ways!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,570 ✭✭✭sparky42


    Surprisingly easy, remember that PSNI leak last year or the year before? IT systems can't stop Human Error.

    Though to be honest having downloaded before it was pulled and had a read through, outside of embarrassing things for us like pointing out even the rest of the EU might be getting tired of our Bull, I didn't see anything that major in it in terms of national security type issues. Though that's more that we don't take National Security/Defence seriously enough for their to be anything major to disclose in the Briefing.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,446 ✭✭✭roadmaster




  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,139 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    That ISG thing started back before the last election, but it's been going slowly. First from the Irish side, now from the US side (not deliberately, just processes)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,446 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    You could get a job with them to advice on the new Armour.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 590 ✭✭✭vswr


    be quite lucrative that role… seen as the DF love to consult on things, but never buy anything



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,570 ✭✭✭sparky42


    since they aren’t the ones that get to sign the checks not sure how it’s their fault?



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,139 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    Heh. Much though I would like that, I don't see it happening.

    This is a much higher-level thing. As it says, "re-design", it doesn't go to the level of "Use this gadget or that gizmo". ISG is more a 'grand strategy' type level organisation. It also doesn't tell other countries what to do as much as provide an outside perspective to think about, they're a subset of the Defense Security Co-operation University which itself is part of the Defense Security Cooperation Agency.

    https://dscu.edu/isg/about-the-institute



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,570 ✭✭✭sparky42


    so do you think it’s something like looking over what has already been decided and is ready to move to implementation, or does it suggest that the redesign is still in early stages?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 590 ✭✭✭vswr




  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,139 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    As I understand it, it's 'early stages'. That said, I've no solid idea. It's not as if I've been invited to the meetings.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,266 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    If it is a high level thing, its hard to know what value it's adding.

    The Commission Report gave a very detailed command and force structure reorg recommendation and this was broken down into enabling actions and a timeline in the implementation plan.



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,139 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    It doesn’t, though. It laments that the current structure is not fit for purpose and must be improved. It says “To achieve this, the Commission recommends that the CHOD initiate an immediate force design process, assisted by external experts with access to international military expertise, which should comply with a range of principles and parameters that the Commission has outlined, and be consistent with this report’s recommended implementation architecture.”

    Very arguably this ISG reachout is a part of that recommendation.

    I believe ISG covers not only the nuts and bolts, as it were, but also engages in things like professional education course structure, recruiting, integration of reserve forces and the like.

    Now, you can certainly ask why it took near three years to get to that point and I would think it should be concluded before anyone goes shopping for new vehicles or whatever, to make sure the right amount is purchased, but maybe I’m giving people too much credit.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,446 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    i had made a simlar point before that they could not really put a order in for new armour untill they agreed what the new army/Land compondent was going to look like

    But the problem is they have comitted to 2028 and also as many have mentioned there will be a big lead in time on military gear so they need to get the order in now.

    At present all in the order is expected to be 300 plus armoured vechiles covering everthing from IFVs, APCs etc. If they need to order more they can just add more.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,345 ✭✭✭source


    RTE news : Defence budget should reach highest level, says Tánaiste

    http://www.rte.ie/news/2025/0222/1498201-defence-forces/

    At least it looks like they're actually seeing what's happening in the world and talking about doing something for once.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,266 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    Martin and Harris have had quite a few reality checks lately, at Munich and the emergency EU leaders meetings.

    Our partners have stopped saying please. And you wouldn't blame them.



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