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Russia-Ukraine War (continuing)

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Comments

  • #8612
    jmreire
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,022 ✭✭✭jmreire


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123199122#Comment_123199122

    Simple ultimatum from Trump…" Putin, end this war immediately, or I will" that should do it.. but unfortunately, Donald is highly to do it.



  • #8613
    threeball
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,810 ✭✭✭threeball


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123199519#Comment_123199519

    100bn to get what? They're handing over 20% of the country after the loss of 10s of 1000s of lives. They shouldn't get a rex unless they continue to supply arms which they won't as Trump is Putins bitch.



  • #8614
    riddles
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,687 ✭✭✭riddles


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123199586#Comment_123199586

    if he weren’t beholden to Putin that might happen.



  • #8615
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,012 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123199519#Comment_123199519

    We don't know the specifics so we can't judge it.

    Trump's original deal idea was widely greeted with shock - If Ukraine didn't agree there would be no more support for Ukraine. If Putin didn't agree, then Trump would give Ukraine whatever arms it wanted.

    This is a worse version of that.

    Gluing everything we know so far - Putin gets whatever he wants, Ukraine gives Putin seized territories, Ukraine gives the US X mineral wealth to "pay for received weapons". In exchange Ukraine gets to never join NATO. Europe picks up the bill.

    Again I would expect twists and turns, but as it stands:

    If there's peace it comes at extraordinary cost to Ukraine. There is zero cost or punishment for Russia, only gains + a new strong relationship with the US + likely dropped sanctions

    If there's no peace then Ukraine are blamed and have to pay minerals for any US support, whilst still getting invaded by Putin. Back at the status quo but worse.

    I'm waiting for the catch for Russia, but there's nothing so far. That's an absolutely awful deal for Ukraine.



  • #8616
    Loafing Oaf
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,881 ✭✭✭✭Loafing Oaf


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123199612#Comment_123199612

    Can only be justified for Ukraine of there is a proper America-underwritten security guarantee…



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  • #8617
    threeball
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,810 ✭✭✭threeball


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123199631#Comment_123199631

    They already had one of those before the war started, signed by people with more morals than Trump. It wasn't worth the paper it was written on. The only currency is more weapons. Any appeasement is just kicking the can down the road.



  • #8618
    itsacoolday
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 507 ✭✭✭itsacoolday


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123199548#Comment_123199548

    Trump and the Americans have put 100 billion or something in to Ukraine in the past few years, plus military intelligence.

    How much have we put in, and you say Trump is the greedy one? Like Vietnam and Afghanistan, I'd say he wants Ukraine to cease to be a drain on America. The Americans due to their military intelligence, satellites etc know which way the war is now going. They spend billions on knowing. And they know Ukraines population is much smaller than Russias, and the ground Russia took is now heavily mined etc.



  • #8619
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,012 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123199672#Comment_123199672

    And there was huge support in the US for supporting Ukraine, it was bipartisan. They chose to do so at the time. Keeping in mind a big chunk of the military support was equipment earmarked for mothballing.

    Trump has now come in and is demanding to be "paid back".

    Many countries have supported Ukraine - none are asking to be paid back. As of 2024 there's well over a dozen countries that have given more per GDP than the US. They aren't asking for it back.

    And doing it while Ukraine are under invasion. And threatening to take away their internet. It's obscene stuff.



  • #8620
    kippy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,251 ✭✭✭✭kippy


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123199672#Comment_123199672

    You are giving the yanks way too much credit.

    They be got fucked over in Afghanistan and Iraq at the cost of billions despite their overall wealth and intelligence.

    This situation is essentially trump trying to get the best outcome for the US /himself in the short term without viewing the long term outcomes.

    Not only does the want the Ukraine to be a drain on the US, he wants to drain the Ukraine.

    You'd hope it's all part of some masterplan to benefit the citizens of Ukraine and Russia.....



  • #8621
    odyssey06
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,799 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123199672#Comment_123199672

    Trump doesnt give a damn about US taxpayers. Look at his golf and superbowl junkets.

    His tariffs make zero economic sense are just beggar thy neighbour based on economic illiteracy.

    He is a greedy amoral sociopath who like a child wants a slice of the cake.

    100 billion is small change to the US and a lot of the dollars were spent in buying US equipment and into US factories.

    Ukraine as a drain on the US is nowhere in terms of significance. Wait til you see the drain on US exports in Canada and the EU from Trumps incompetence.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



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  • #8622
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,012 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123199747#Comment_123199747

    Trillions. The US spent 300m a day in Afghanistan for 20 years.



  • #8623
    kippy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,251 ✭✭✭✭kippy


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123199773#Comment_123199773

    I stand corrected on the figure but the point stands. Shouldn't be giving the yanks too much credit about their capabilities/ability to predict the future etc etc....



  • #8624
    ilkhanid
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,152 ✭✭✭ilkhanid


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123197222#Comment_123197222

    It would be trained kangaroos with backpacks in the Mad Max universe. But even Immortan Joe or Humungous weren't that desperate.



  • #8625
    Infini
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,653 ✭✭✭Infini


    The biggest Reverse Uno that Zelenskyy could pull right now is if he were to talk to the EU and they decided to put out a preliminary agreement about the rare earths that would not only be fair but could risk shutting out Trump and his Republicult friends as well. Nothing better than turning around and saying the US lost out because the EU made a serious offer and Trump was so impotent and weak he can only extort and not make serious offers.



  • #8626
    riddles
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,687 ✭✭✭riddles


    9fecb53b-8d91-4395-bd95-014d9eae4739.jpeg

    These guys have all the solutions it seems



  • #8627
    itsacoolday
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 507 ✭✭✭itsacoolday


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123199773#Comment_123199773

    After 9/11, the USA went in to Afghanistan to get Bin Laden and other senior A.Q. figures. That was the main reason they went there. They got Bin Laden.

    Lesson: do not get on the wrong side of the Americans.



  • #8628
    Apiarist
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,764 ✭✭✭Apiarist


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123199862#Comment_123199862

    An interesting plan.

    Now, can I just inform the community that all these rare earth metals in Ukraine are essentially a vapourware? Why is that nobody cared about them before, and if Ukraine's territory was such a motherlode of these minerals, how come they are not being extracted already? The reason is that they are not really profitable to extract:

    https://www.mining.com/web/trump-wants-ukraines-minerals-but-what-exactly-is-up-for-grabs/

    S&P Report

    If the question was just rare earth minerals, then, personally, in Zelenskyy's place, I would sign a deal giving all of them to the USA for the continuous support. Unfortunately, the deal also wants other rights, like gas, oil and port facilities which are commercially viable.

    The problem is that the proposed deal is just horrifically bad and amounts to Ukraine surrender something while getting nothing in return.



  • #8629
    threeball
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,810 ✭✭✭threeball


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123199908#Comment_123199908

    He wasn't even in Afghanistan genius. He was in PAKISTAN. Only took 10yrs to find him too. Trump will long be dead in 10yrs.



  • #8630
    Francie Barrett
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,085 ✭✭✭✭Francie Barrett


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123199754#Comment_123199754

    Trump doesnt give a damn about US taxpayers. Look at his golf and superbowl junkets.

    I disagree on this point, it's been irritating me as of late.

    If Trump wants to watch a Superbowl, I think he's 100% entitled to.

    I also extend that same gratuity to Martin if he wants to watch an all-Ireland final. Same goes for Starmer if he wants to watch some English soccer game. Maybe Modi in India likes watching cricket?

    I am completely hostile to FF and Michael Martin, but if he wants to watch an Irish team in sport, then give him the damn tickets, let him enjoy himself for 2 hours.

    On this one point, people need to get over themselves.



  • #8631
    bear1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,900 ✭✭✭✭bear1


    Simply can’t see what it is Russia will be giving up. Total **** show



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  • #8632
    threeball
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,810 ✭✭✭threeball


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123199975#Comment_123199975

    Does Martin scalp the guards for the cost of their tickets too?



  • #8633
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 41,875 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123199975#Comment_123199975

    Whataboutery. The issue isn't Trump enjoying the odd game of golf, it's him extorting the US taxpayer constantly by ripping them off for the cost security. People like Martin and Starmer can go to a stadium for an hour or two and that's them done. There's no bloated security detail.

    He's already leeched $10.7 million off the American public for his grotty habit.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-gold-trips-taxpayer-money-doge-b2701045.html

    Feel free to link to Starmer or Martin pulling the same nonsense.

    Post edited by ancapailldorcha on

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • #8634
    eightieschewbaccy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,693 ✭✭✭eightieschewbaccy


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123199519#Comment_123199519

    You can say it's a tactic but why is his tactic largely against Ukraine rather than the state that committed the invasion. He seems to actively be working to the detriment of Ukraine and no consequences for Russia.



  • #8635
    poop emoji
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 531 ✭✭✭poop emoji


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123199773#Comment_123199773

    2.7 trillion dollars

    Or 20-25 Ukraines for 1 Afghanistan

    I suspect the political blowback on trump being a loser be epic



  • #8636
    JPCN1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 940 ✭✭✭JPCN1


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123198181#Comment_123198181

    I'd imagine the devotees are shrinking daily… Even the most diehard must be wondering wtf is going on.



  • #8637
    Widdensushi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,550 ✭✭✭Widdensushi


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123200144#Comment_123200144

    Wasn't there an assassination attempt at a golf course? I ain't a trump fan but if he wants to go play golf it's not the usa bigger issue, obviously he needs security,, don't want to make a Martyr of him, he will destroy himself and all around soon enough if left to his own devices.



  • #8638
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 41,875 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123200361#Comment_123200361

    No idea. If it's that dangerous, he should abstain from it and do his job.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • #8639
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,322 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123199400#Comment_123199400

    +1. America is a superpower currently apparently pulling itself apart, near daily, though that rot runs deep and is at least a decade in coming, hellbent on diminishing that power and looking less and less like the leader of The Free World™(in recent times a joke in of itself in many ways, sad to say).

    China is a superpower that makes most of the world's stuff© with internal issues of its own, but doing pretty well, thanks very much.

    Russia's a regional power and pretty much always was, more recently with nukes and bluster, that thinks it's the superpower it was when the USSR was in fashion. But fashions change.

    Nations like India are on the up, demographically if nothing else. Nations of Africa and South America ditto, never mind the Pacific Rim.

    With internal issues of its own, mostly a lack of virile and decisive leadership, Europe/the EU is a superpower, that forgot it was, or doesn't seem to realise it. Yet. It needs to realise it soon and MAGAmerica should be that wakeup call.

    Many worry about Artificial Intelligence. I worry far more about Organic Idiocy.



  • #8640
    Francie Barrett
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,085 ✭✭✭✭Francie Barrett


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123200144#Comment_123200144

    This is the way America does security.

    Obama came to Ireland with 400 secret service agents.

    If Ireland is about the most friendly country Obama could get, I'd hate to see the security bill for him in even a neutral country.



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  • #8641
    kowloon
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,738 ✭✭✭✭kowloon


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123199672#Comment_123199672

    The EU has now hit commitments of $145B (https://www.eeas.europa.eu/delegations/united-states-america/eu-assistance-ukraine-us-dollars_en?s=253). Germany has committed the highest portion of its GDP with the UK and Canada following. The US is at 0.55%GDP and it looks like Trump wants a massive return on investment.

    I do say Trump is the greedy one. Are you saying Donald Trump is not a greedy person? Really? What would you say drives him? Would you disagree with all of the people saying he's an entirely transactional person?



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