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Sinn Fein and how do they form a government dilemma

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,128 ✭✭✭harryharry25


    Well considering the Govt want Govt backbenchers in Lowry and Co to be allowed ask questions in Leaders Questions as if they are in opposite, I expect shouting a plenty from ALL opposition parties next week if not resolved.

    Can't be allowed to happen or it makes a mockery of the Dail



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,977 ✭✭✭✭Brendan Bendar


    That issue should be sorted next week.

    the big picture is however, that Verona is in for a very difficult time in this period as the opposition have seen the value of roaring and shouting and causing chaos.

    I predict plenty more 'chaos and uproar' in Dáil Eireann as these lads and lassies stretch their legs in this semester.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,838 ✭✭✭BalcombeSt4


    What does that have to do with anything? How many current Sinn Fein TD's are ex-IRA Volunteers? Should Fianna Fail not suffer the same scrutiny for their sides role in the civil war or when they first entered the Irish parliament in Dublin the FF TDs did so with revolvers in their pockets?

    And, I don't personally know anyone killed at Christmas during the Troubles, but my auntie who lives in Crossmaglen knew one of the five people killed (as well as one of the injured) in the double attack on Dundalk & Silverbridge on the 19 December 1975, by members of the Glenanne Gang (a cabal of RUC, UDR & UVF members) and a week before that young innocent man was killed in Dublin Airport by a UDA bomb. But I don't believe it's a legitmate reason, 50 years later to outlaw the PUP, UDP or DUP from the assassembly in Belfast or the Parliament in Dublin (if they every got a candidate successfully elected to it).

    As a socialist I hate what the UVF, UDA, UR & RHC's all stood for. But if their no longer waging a sectarin killing spree then I believe their affiliated political groups should be scrutinised on their policies & their positions on important issues, like, the economy, global warming, Gaza etc…

    I mean if political parties were scrutinised on the horrors their military forces committed at Christmas the US Republican Party would be outlawed for the US Air Force bombing of Bach Mai Hospital on the 22 December 1972 and the wider Christmas bombing campaign between the 18 to 28 December in Hanoi & several other northern cities which killed 1,625 civilians.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,590 ✭✭✭Vizzy


    In your first sentence you question why SF's history of murdering people should be taken into account and then you finish your post with some waffle about how the US killed people in Hanoi in 1972.

    Strange to say the least.🤔



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,074 ✭✭✭✭dulpit


    The issue a lot of people have with sinn fein now and their history of the ira in the troubles is that they still commemorate the "volunteers" who bombed and murdered and haven't really had any acceptance that violence and the armed struggle was pointless and had no widespread support.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74,561 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    My "favourite" one of these is they still celebrate the idiot from Gorey who blew himself (and nobody else, thankfully) up on a bus during the peace process.

    Until they can give up that crap, and also wash the party of people like Senator Murphy and Deputy Ellis, they cannot get away from being a party of murderers.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,817 ✭✭✭zoobizoo


    IIndeed..... a few years back, TD John Brady in Wicklow posted on FB about the bomber being a brave volunteer.....

    3 people were seriously injured in that bombing.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 44,523 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Mod: @jh79 do not post in this thread again!

    Help Keep Boards Alive. Support us by going ad free today. See here: https://subscriptions.boards.ie/ .



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,074 ✭✭✭✭dulpit


    That's a very black and white view. Not sure it holds for instances such as the proxy bombs though. That isn't something you can blame the British government for, is it?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,977 ✭✭✭✭Brendan Bendar


    Correct….a post well marbled through with outdated terminology and tiresome rhetoric.

    Our country doesn't need those kind of attitudes in my opinion.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,838 ✭✭✭BalcombeSt4


    I don't believe I've had the pleasure of having an interaction with you before.

    But you're very good at deflecting the issue. Which Sinn Fein active service unit murdered someone, and if Sinn Fein was a murderous organisation why did Merlyn Rees de-proscribe it in 1974 & why was it never made illegal again? Afterall, the war lasted for another 24 years.

    I mentioned the Hanoi Christmas bombing because you seemed particularly offended about people being killed in December. Maybe I overestimated your intelligence and you don't know where Hanoi is or what happened to Bach Mai hospital.

    What do you consider a worse act, Blood Friday, Dublin bombings, Bloody Sunday or the strike on Bach Mai hospital, remember! Napalm sticks to kids.

    You far-right Unionist will throw any old sh!t accusations at Democratic Socialist Republicans & republicans to try and make it stick. With Sinn Fein winning the popular vote in the last two General elections it seems your & your allies times are up.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,838 ✭✭✭BalcombeSt4


    Mod: No soapboxing!

    Post edited by Seth Brundle on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,838 ✭✭✭BalcombeSt4


    Correct, the IRA are to blame for that.

    But 1969 - mid 1971, the IRA had between 250 - 300 active member/Volunteers, by the time of Bloody Friday the IRA's Belfast brigade alone according to several sources had 1,200 Volunteers. And the Proxy bombs had nothing to do with the conflict beginning, that's just whataboutism.

    If it had not been the IRA who back in 1971 became the resistance it would have been the INLA, IPLO, Saore Eire, PFLI, IRB, CRF, SARAF etc.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,838 ✭✭✭BalcombeSt4


    To clarify again on this the point I;m making.

    If a guerrilla army has to be judged on their actions & even banned (like you're alluding to) then surely the most powerful army blowing hospitals & sticking napalm to kids should be judged just as much or even more harshly.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,838 ✭✭✭BalcombeSt4


    This another thing, IRA Volunteers "murder people". British soldiers & RUC when they shot children Julie Livingstone or Carlo Ann Kelly, Majella O'Hare etc… they shoot them& by some miracle they just die.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,074 ✭✭✭✭dulpit


    The British Army in the north sucked. So did the ruc. So did the loyalist paramilitaries. So did the Republican paramilitaries. They're all bad. Violence was never the answer. Your word soup of the last few posts doesn't acknowledge that at no time did the IRA ever have popular support.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,796 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    Those of us who grew up there and during it never had the luxury of sitting on the fence. Thats a luxury only those who never experienced any of the hatred, sectarianism or second class citizen treatment can afford. The IRA simply could not have existed if they didnt have the support of the regular catholic/nationalist. You'd be arguing with historical experts if you disagreed (which you can go educate yourself on because Im not educating you on it)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,074 ✭✭✭✭dulpit


    The vast majority of people didn't support violence. Sinn fein only started to grow support when the ira laid down their arms.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,796 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    in the north? Incorrect. The provos had a lot of support and SF were a growing force since the split in the 80s. Im sure people living in the south who rarely ever went there would know better though than those of us who did so you believe what you want. doesnt change the truth.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,040 ✭✭✭✭Red Silurian


    https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2025/0221/1498036-sinn-fein-us/

    As a SF supporter I'm not sure I agree with this. Would it not be better to show up and make your grievances known? Wear a "Free Palestine" T-Shirt to the meeting or something

    Not engaging is what makes Drumpf stronger



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,571 ✭✭✭Francis McM


    We know already Trump and his party probably do not like Ireland because of all the American companies paying their tax on their worldwide profits through Ireland, and they want to bring the tax dollars and jobs home to America….and also because of insults from previous Irish politicians and Taoiseach like Harris who called Trump an Awful Ghoul. We also are not members of NATO and freeload on others for defence of the west, as they would see it.

    Its a bit of an insult from Mary Lou McD to the American electorate who voted for Trump, when she has not even been invited to the White House this year. The Americans are talking about, and seem increasingly likely to impose, a 25% initial tariff on imports of pharma from Ireland, and increasing it from there.

    We should remember Foreign-owned multinationals accounted for €19.6 billion or 86.5% of all corporation tax paid.  Plus those companies pay a lot of income tax and other taxes.

    Maybe we could send Mary Lou and Co. to some , errr, other countries (like a few from the middle east or North Africa) and she could persuade some of their companies to come here and pay some tax for us? Even just five or ten billion? If she could be successful at that, perhaps it would increase the chance of her and SF forming a government.

    Post edited by Francis McM on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,977 ✭✭✭✭Brendan Bendar


    Good call Francis, these pay no heed to the facts you outline in your post.

    Doesn’t matter to them …maybe if the bill for re building Gaza landed on their collective doorsteps they might not be so chipper about shelling out.

    Maybe if those ‘heroes’ brandishing the guns handing back what purports to be hostages got the bill

    it might be a bit different.

    Maybe if theycame out of their tunnels under schools and hospitals the carnage might be lesser and showed the same faux courage they showed at the hand overs the place wouldn’t be a demolition zone.

    Maybe if they stopped blowing up busses…….just a thought?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,502 ✭✭✭howiya


    I think the first minister should attend. Couldn't give a **** whether the rest of SF attend or not. It should be a joint decision between first and deputy first minister on behalf of the NI executive.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 691 ✭✭✭rdwight


    Not often I'd find the DUP saying something I agree with but they are right in asking why is was okay for SF to go to White House last year when American bombs were raining down on Gaza but it's not right to go now the bombs have stopped.

    There's lots of reasons to despise Trump but it is generally accepted that fear of his unpredictability pushed both sides to a ceasefire.

    SDLP got it right last year.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,093 ✭✭✭Xander10


    Lou saying she would go if she was taoiseach.

    This whole stance new seems like a big own goal



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74,561 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    McDonald expressing sadness at the death of a Garda and Irish solider killer (Don Tidey kidnapping) this evening.

    If you want to be a serious party and not get your past thrown at you constantly, don't do things like this in public.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 56,089 ✭✭✭✭Headshot




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,040 ✭✭✭✭Red Silurian


    The more I think about it the more it makes sense. As leader of SF, a largely pro-Gaza party, she has to first and foremost appeal to her voter base who would appreciate her not going to the White House.

    She also said in the same statement that the Taoiseach should go to the White House (if invited) so presumably when she becomes Taoiseach she will go as the Leader of the country even if Trump were still in charge.

    I think there's a largely broad understanding across the govt and opposition that the Taoiseach should go to the White House (if invited) regardless of who is commander in chief over there

    It's highly probable we won't be invited though



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,571 ✭✭✭Francis McM


    You say it's highly probable we won't be invited though….I would say it would be even less likely Mary Lou McDonald would be invited if she were ever to become Taoiseach. After all, the leaders of Iran or Venezuela do not get invited to the White House on their national holiday, do they?

    Like him or loathe him, I think its a bad idea to prick or annoy the leader of the free world - especially when we are the world’s biggest corporate ‘tax haven’.

    There are just so many jobs relying on the American multinationals in this country, and the tax they pay. The IMF would be still here only for them.

    And as the Americans would see it, we do not pull our weight in defence matters either, and freeload on our neighbours.

    In constantly insulting, annoying and irritating the Americans (Trump was elected there so when insulting him we are also insulting the electorate there ), we have added insult to injury. To call it an own goal is an understatement.

    Would not be surprised if the next government to be formed, in 4 years time or whenever, will be answerable to the IMF again, given our national debt is now 4 or 5 times higher that just before the last crash, and America is going to impose 25% tariffs, and climbing, on pharma imports from us etc. Maybe Mary Lou McD knows this and hopes to sweep in to power on a left wing protest vote if / when the country is in an awful state in 3 or 4 years?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,040 ✭✭✭✭Red Silurian


    All very good points, especially about the imf being back after the next election

    To answer your question, yes, I think MLMD will be invited to the White House on Saint Patrick's Day when she becomes Taoiseach. The reason being that about 10million (about 3%) citizens of the USA claim to be Irish and a further 30million (~8%) claim Irish heritage. That's a lot of votes for any US president to snub no matter who sits in the White House or who leads the Dail

    To use your examples of Iran and Venezuela, their combined heritage numbers in the US command less than 1% of the population despite what Drumpf says. Inviting the German Chancellor around their national holiday (3rd October) would make much more sense as around 13% of Americans claim full or partial German heritage



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