Irish Property Market chat II - *read mod note post #1 before posting*

I mean they're all very easily solved issues with even a minimum of effort.

Give people 2 years of vacancy before the tax rate kicks in if you want to be generous, to allow for probate or the purchase and renovation of a derelict home or similar.

A home with no registered resident is vacant. And a human can only be registered resident in one home. You'd drag some unregistered rental tenancies into the tax system this way too, as a nice bonus.

According to the Census of 2022, there were 163,433 (excluding holiday homes) vacant properties on Census night 2022. Thats an absolutely unacceptable number during a time of the worst housing crisis in the history of the state. Over half a decade's worth of housing construction, just sitting there.

And thats not even taking into account the vacant sites that are all around the country in prime locations.

Empty habitable housing and rampant dereliction. Huge amounts of land. won't build high rise... won't introduce meaningful property taxes... if only there were easyvways to solve the " crisis " ... lol !

Its messy… Should second home tax be substantial, if the government simply refuses to do its job, of providing housing? Rhetorical question…

True you are indeed taxed heavily on all you reference but this is for your each individuals health benefit. Wanting to control what people do with their assets is communism.

Do you earn an income from your house or car? You do from an investment and you are taxed on what you earn from investment either income tax if rented out or capital gains tax if sold and a profit is made.

Very selective quoting. I also said you get to dictate what I do with my building. So we have gone from a tax on derilict buildings to tax on second homes or any property not a PPR. I could own 2 modest properties worth less than some mansion 4 times larger that only one person lives in and I should pay way more tax on the property?
It isn’t communism but it is a dictatorship. It is completely wrong to say communism doesn’t allow property investment because property investment is huge in China and was also big in Russia and how Putin has so much wealth. We already pay property tax.
As for 6 months on a derelict property I take it nobody has tried getting planning, finance and a builder to do work.

I'm taxed a large amount of CGT on my stocks. And deemed disposal hits every 8 years on ETFs, both greatly influencing what I do with my assets. Is that communism?

If not, why is it OK to tax stocks heavily, but not houses used as investments (non-PPRs)? Taxing housing investments would actually benefit society at large by encouraging those vacant properties back into use, but taxing stocks has no such societal benefit.

You're free to keep your bottle collection in as many homes as you'd like. But during the worst housing crisis in the history of the state, when we have 10,000+ homeless Irish people, and a lack of available housing is negatively impacting quality of life for everyone in the state, if you're going to use up a very limited state resource to house your bottle collection then be prepared to pay tax to do so.

Under any proposed system your PPR is completely exempt, the PPR's of any of your families are exempt, and holiday homes in non-RPZs (ie, almost all of them) are exempt. So families would still be free to have multiple properties before being hit with any tax.

Its really mind boggling that people would get upset at the owners of vacant properties having to pay tax. How can anyone justify having 160,000 vacant homes in the state during a severe housing crisis. Its not like the houses are being seized - the state would just be suggesting (through tax) that maybe the owner should actually put the house to use renting it out. Which would presumably make the owner quite a lot of money, while they're at it.

The building isn’t empty it is where I keep my bottle collection I am using it. How are you going to say what is vacant? You’ll need a proper definition and time frame to claim it is vacant. Go try and define and be clear on all the relevant circumstances. Somebody is a nursing home for a year is the property vacant? Two years does that do it? Somebody working abroad?etc… you need to explain all the circumstances

@Blut2

You need to do as above. Citizens rights should never be thrown aside because it is convenient at the time. Why you are so bothered about individuals when the largest owners of derelict and empty property is owned by the councils and therefore the government is bizarre.
you may not be old enough to remember they had a tax on properties like this before and it lead to the destruction of many traditional cottages. People maintained old family homes but once the tax came in people just pulled the roof off so they wouldn’t be consider habitable

Well straight away you are wrong there. PPR is the nursing home and living abroad means PPR is in that country once over 6 months.

So it is not very simple. There is not PPR registry so how do you find out this information?

You are right I keep my chair collection there and visit every 2 weeks to sit in them. Who is going to report the property as vacant?

Can you explain how a holiday home in a RPZ works? If somebody has a holiday home and the area becomes RPZ do they have to sell or get heavily taxed?

Do you the councils have the power to seize derelict properties? Do you know why they don’t?

If your car is off the road do you pay road tax? Should you pay road tax just because you own a car and don't use it?

You can only declare it off the road for up to 12 months, anything after that and it has to be either scrapped or taxed. If you do neither and then try and use it again your tax is backdated.

You are taxed on profits every 8 yrs on the deemed date so you are paying a once off "income tax rate" of 41% of gains in the period. You are being given the choice on your investment decision hold or sell. I emphasise the word "choice" you are not being forced to sell by making the investment environment toxic.

I would not consider a 41% tax over 8 yrs gains as heavy as same is only on the gains in the period. You are not liable for any other taxes during this period on your investment.

If you want to compare the above to property you want to impose a tax on an investment in this situation a property where no income is generated. If an income is generated then income tax is due on the income.

If you want to treat both investments in the same fashion then any investment in ETF's should be charged a yearly tax and also the 41% deemed disposal tax.

So to be fair then tax ETFS both a yearly charge (similar to the property tax that is been suggested in this thread) and then any income on both investment classes received each year.

A non PPR is not an investment earning an income so should not be liable to an income tax charge or a regular tax in any different way to a neighbours house that is a PPR. Both properties are consuming exactly the same amount of local amenities nothing more nothing less.

if the non PPR is eventually sold for a profit then thats when the capital gains tax becomes payable.

Well there is no debate when you won't define what the government can do to say what is in use by the owner or not. You have an idealistic view of how a tax can be implemented. I have given you the opportunity to explain a workable plan. You just haven't done it, you need to give a solution that has no loopholes.

Somebody in a nursing home is given the tax break on any sale of their former home as if it is their PPR but social welfare record the nursing home as the PPR. You do actually need to know how the systems currently work to come up with a workable solution.

Now that is probably all too much for you to actually workout so you just say it is easy and any challenge is just irrational