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Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,415 ✭✭✭P.Walnuts


    It's really not a long way off to JC.

    It's SP having a couple of poor games in a row/getting injured away.

    The joys of having depth



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 32,765 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    I think JC is a bit unfortunate in how the games have fallen. Ultimately they are going to want to get minutes into SP and they definitely won't want him going a month without starting a match.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,384 ✭✭✭Jump_In_Jack


    I must say, I really like the way the selectors have gone about this 23.
    This is a perfect example of keeping the spine of the team and absorbing a few changes without too much change to effect the performance hopefully.
    Some rotation among quality players to keep a bit of freshness to the core of the team (Henshaw starts - Aki benches, Osborne starts - Keenan is rested), a couple of players out injured (Furlong and Doris) and a couple of players back in from injury (J McCarthy and Hansen), and giving some youth a chance in the starting 15 (Osborne for Keenan, Clarkson for Bealham) and some exciting new talent to get a cap off the bench (Boyle and G McCarthy). Still loads of experience in the starting 15 (Ringrose, Henshaw Lowe, JGP, POM, VdF, Beirne and more) and loads of experience on the bench (Bealham, Ryan, Murray and Aki) while maintaining a bench that will add some threat in attack when introduced (Ryan, Baird Prendergast and Aki should all bring a lot of energy with 25 mins to go).

    While I think Wales are very vulnerable to getting smashed I'm still looking forward to this now. There are plenty of talking points with this selection, obviously the ongoing battle for the 10 jersey, Hansen under pressure for 14 jersey, Osborne to put his hand up, Conan has a great chance to get back in the starting pack for the French match, McCarthy will be put through a fitness test, VdF will be busy marking their best player, Jac Morgan, possibly with a view to the starting 7 jersey for the B&I Lions, Clarkson to hold the scrums together. It's going to be hugely entertaining regardless of the score, a tight battle wouldn't be so bad if Wales overperform and Ireland struggle with the changes to find their groove, but I suspect this could be Ireland close to 50 points, match over with 30 to go. I'd love to see Ireland open up and score ten tries, we really should be capable of it if we can get things to click. A good start, and I could see a try within 5 minutes and no let up allowed to the final whistle.

    I haven't seen the weather forecast, so it'll be interesting if it's wet and windy and Wales try to kick a lot of contestables, and look to defend to keep the scoreline down. That'll test our aerial ability as well as push us into attacking a lot as I expect Ireland to have a lot of the possession.

    Edit: I see Cian Prendergast was named ahead of Baird, that's a good call in my opinion. CP has been due an opportunity, really hope he gets on early and puts in a big performance.

    Post edited by Jump_In_Jack on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,567 ✭✭✭niallm77


    Is the roof open or closed?

    Edit- forecast is for dry day



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,384 ✭✭✭Jump_In_Jack


    Hadn't considered that, if closed it would suit us even more you'd imagine, so I'd think Wales will opt to keep it open.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 3,686 ✭✭✭50HX


    Roof will be closed



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,567 ✭✭✭niallm77


    9am tomorrow for the team announcement.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,462 ✭✭✭almostover


    Interesting selection if it materialises. I'd rather see Beirne bench than Ryan, he has a lot of minutes on the clock this season. Could do with just playing the final 20.

    The Obsorne selection at 15, if true, would be very interesting. Keenan hasn't put a foot wrong and would offer stability but if this Osborne selection materialises it shows that the management are keen to develop him. I'm not a Leinster fan and don't watch many of their games. Is this Osborne's best position? Or just a way to get him experience in a big away game? He's clearly going to force his way into the 23 soon but what is his position? Or is he likely to be the 23rd man as a utility back? Jack Crowley offers that 10/12/15 option so we can afford to be more specialised in our 23 jersey. Hence Aki probably being no.23 this weekend.

    Also didn't expect Boyle to be picked but this is a good opportunity to give someone other than Cian Healy a go and start that succession planning. I don't disagree with that selection. There's no clear alternative to Healy so time to throw a guy in at the deep end and see if he has it. Worked for Clarkson.

    Presume this means POM is captain? That's another reason I'd rather see Ryan start ahead of Beirne, is he not 2nd choice for captain? Or is Ringrose 2nd choice? Not that it makes much difference this weekend but it's good for the 2nd choice to get experience of the captaincy, Doris isn't immune to injury.

    Also, does anyone have odds on POM being selected for the Lions tour? I'm tempted to place a bet on it. None of the 6s bar Tom Curry (who's a 7) have been going well so far in the tournament. He could get picked for leadership and as an experienced squad player. It's not beyond the realms of possibility.

    Another contentious opinion coming up by me now. Jac Morgan is ahead of JvDF for the 7 shirt in my eyes so far. That may change after this game. Morgan has been outstanding in a diabolical Welsh side. JvDF has been efficient as always and playing well without being stand out. Think Saturday could be a shootout for the Lions 7 shirt. Especially seeing as none of the 6s have excelled and Tom Curry looks nailed on for that.

    If this is the 23 picked then I'm happy, nice mix of stability and getting experience for the next generation. We need to target a 4+ try win with a minimum of a 20 point margin. But Wales will be fired up and may make it far closer than that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,567 ✭✭✭niallm77


    Thornley says sheehan is captain.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 27,224 ✭✭✭✭phog


    Beirne is one of those players that Farrell plays in every game and every minute of the game regardless of the opposition.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,462 ✭✭✭almostover


    Good choice if true, will always be a starter when fit. Interested to see how he interacts with the referee.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,462 ✭✭✭almostover


    Good choice if true, will always be a starter when fit. Interested to see how he interacts with the referee.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 13,942 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    Osborne's future is in the centre imo. If Barret hadn't come in this season, I think he'd have displaced one of Henshaw or Ringrose.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,538 ✭✭✭ersatz


    Agree that it would be great to see Izzy push on and get into the match day squad, but none of the Ulster players did themselves any favours at the weekend and no-one is pushing their way in on the back of poor performances, not that Izzy played poorly but the whole team were bad.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 3,686 ✭✭✭50HX


    Poor provence performance doesn't really come into it that much.

    It's constantly mentioned here it's how they perform in camp



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 32,765 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Izuchukwu is injured. I too would have liked to see him come into the squad otherwise.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,621 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    While it's fair to say that no Ulster player has earned a place in the match day squads, I think the positives for including Izzy way outweigh the negatives. A space is open in the back row anyway, Okay POM is there but him collecting another cap is going to be meaningless this time next year. If we can't beat Wales without the "leadership" of POM then they should throw in the towel.

    At least with Izzy (or Prendergast/Culhane/Gleason/McNabney), you have a guy who could potentially be the difference maker in next year's 6N and at a minimum could be pushing lads for a place at the next WC. The fallback position of going back to a legend whos best days are behind him has probably been the biggest impediment to the Irish rugby team for the last decade.



  • Subscribers, Paid Member Posts: 44,832 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    ... And the last decade has been the worst ever for Irish rugby.

    Sometimes people need to realise that, while mistakes will be made (everyone's human) proof of the reasons behind selection decisions are in the results gained.

    In the last ten years Ireland have gone from behind a "plucky underdog" team who could rise themselves for one or two games a season, where a single six nations victory over England or France or Wales was seen successful championship..... To a team where yearly grand slams are a realistic goal, where a top 4 ranking in the world is common and expected and one where we are the envy of many traditional rugby playing nations.

    Post edited by sydthebeat on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,079 ✭✭✭irelandrover


    If you are judging purely on results of the national team then this is correct.

    However we only have to look at Wales to see that current good results can hide a lot of problem under the surface.

    Fans of the other three provinces are getting disillusioned with the national team. You can say it represents the best players in the country but with no Ulster player in the match day squad, why would they feel represented.

    I don't expect them to select worse players for the team, but calling a Leinster player with 4 caps into the squad is just bad optics. They have to realise that is going to cause resentment.

    I don't think there's an easy solution, but saying because results now are good then everything is ok is a bit short sighted.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,272 ✭✭✭Paul Smeenus


    And yet McCloskey, Stockdale and Timoney were called up into the main squad. So while it's irrelevant, as Izzy is injured, I don't think the awful team performance against Benetton means anything. And they're not all tried and tested Farrell favourites - Timoney is hardly a squad mainstay, and earned a yellow card in Italy.



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  • Subscribers, Paid Member Posts: 44,832 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Not talking about "now" I've literally referred to the last ten years

    Ulster's problems are the IRFUs problems, as in my opinion, the issues there are purely around the coaching setup. No one in there is good enough. Ulster have been a good provider of u20s players but they then disappear from national selection once they enter the senior setup. Look at the names mentioned currently. Izzy is from tullamore, TOTs youth rugby experience was in Australia. Hopefully postlewaith realises his potential and doesn't go down the same route as Balacoune and Hume.

    Ulster fans not feeling represented on the national stage of understandable, but let's not brush over the fact that a lot of Ulster fans are simply being turned off by Ulster rugby right now.

    When their provincial woes are fixed then you can look at increasing national representation.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,714 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    I don't think there's an easy solution, but saying because results now are good then everything is ok is a bit short sighted.

    Don’t think anyone said that. The point was that we have gone from occasional giant-killing team and thinking a Triple Crown is an achievement to expecting to win pretty much every game, regardless of opposition, and we’ve maintained that for a few years now.

    Picking anyone for the Ireland team on any basis other than being the best man for the job is a terrible idea. Picking a guy just to placate “fans” is about as crazy as it gets.

    Back in the amateur days and right into the Gatland era, the coach was the coach but the team was picked by a “selection committee” who ensured a good spread among the three provinces. Coincidentally or not, we were absolutely fncking rubbish for the entire duration.

    It would be great if the provinces could develop more players but national selection is the end result, the problem is much further up the chain.

    Trying some sort of affirmative action to give each province a leg up is basically saying, these golden eggs are great and all but let's see what's inside the goose.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,253 ✭✭✭Hey_Ho_Lets_Go_3


    Ireland (v Wales):

    15. Jamie Osborne (Naas/Leinster)(5)
    14. Mack Hansen (Corinthians/Connacht)(26)
    13. Garry Ringrose (UCD/Leinster)(65)
    12. Robbie Henshaw (Buccaneers/Leinster)(79)
    11. James Lowe (Leinster)(38)
    10. Sam Prendergast (Lansdowne/Leinster)(5)
    9. Jamison Gibson-Park (Leinster)(40)

    1. Andrew Porter (UCD/Leinster)(72)
    2. Dan Sheehan (Lansdowne/Leinster)(captain)(29)
    3. Thomas Clarkson (Dublin University/Leinster)(4)
    4. Joe McCarthy (Dublin University/Leinster)(16)
    5. Tadhg Beirne (Lansdowne/Munster)(58)
    6. Peter O’Mahony (Cork Constitution/Munster)(111)
    7. Josh van der Flier (UCD/Leinster)(70)
    8. Jack Conan (Old Belvedere/Leinster)(48)

    Replacements:

    16. Gus McCarthy (UCD/Leinster)(2)
    17. Jack Boyle (UCD/Leinster)*
    18. Finlay Bealham (Corinthians/Connacht)(48)
    19. James Ryan (UCD/Leinster)(69)
    20. Cian Prendergast (UCD/Connacht)(4)
    21. Conor Murray (Garryowen/Munster)(122)
    22. Jack Crowley (Cork Constitution/Munster)(21)
    23. Bundee Aki (Galwegians/Connacht)(62)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,714 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    Great to see Cian Prendergast in the 23, Baird has been OK and no more so good to freshen it up.

    Picking Clarkson is a great call too, Bealham has been fantastic but you can never have too many tight-heads.

    Hopefully Boyle gets 20 minutes at least and can show us what he can do.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 32,765 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Happy with that team.



  • Subscribers, Paid Member Posts: 44,832 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Love that Ireland team



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,415 ✭✭✭P.Walnuts


    Very happy with that team



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 909 ✭✭✭johnh6767


    good team happy also. Although I wish it was announced from IRFU v Irish Times . Which is strange to say as it comes out earlier from Irish Times so logically I should be happy with that ! Happy for Cian P & Jack B in also, and of course Gus & Sam who are excelling at a very young age. Hard not to feel bad for Jack but I’m sure his day will come to show his wears.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 3,686 ✭✭✭50HX


    Is this a one off or has the move away from Healy permanently happened I wonder, prob not but great to see Gus & Boyle on the bench



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,172 ✭✭✭bingobango12


    Zero complaints with that to be honest.



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