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Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

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Comments

  • Subscribers Posts: 42,862 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    ... And the last decade has been the worst ever for Irish rugby.

    Sometimes people need to realise that, while mistakes will be made (everyone's human) proof of the reasons behind selection decisions are in the results gained.

    In the last ten years Ireland have gone from behind a "plucky underdog" team who could rise themselves for one or two games a season, where a single six nations victory over England or France or Wales was seen successful championship..... To a team where yearly grand slams are a realistic goal, where a top 4 ranking in the world is common and expected and one where we are the envy of many traditional rugby playing nations.

    Post edited by sydthebeat on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,975 ✭✭✭irelandrover


    If you are judging purely on results of the national team then this is correct.

    However we only have to look at Wales to see that current good results can hide a lot of problem under the surface.

    Fans of the other three provinces are getting disillusioned with the national team. You can say it represents the best players in the country but with no Ulster player in the match day squad, why would they feel represented.

    I don't expect them to select worse players for the team, but calling a Leinster player with 4 caps into the squad is just bad optics. They have to realise that is going to cause resentment.

    I don't think there's an easy solution, but saying because results now are good then everything is ok is a bit short sighted.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,894 ✭✭✭Paul Smeenus


    And yet McCloskey, Stockdale and Timoney were called up into the main squad. So while it's irrelevant, as Izzy is injured, I don't think the awful team performance against Benetton means anything. And they're not all tried and tested Farrell favourites - Timoney is hardly a squad mainstay, and earned a yellow card in Italy.



  • Subscribers Posts: 42,862 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Not talking about "now" I've literally referred to the last ten years

    Ulster's problems are the IRFUs problems, as in my opinion, the issues there are purely around the coaching setup. No one in there is good enough. Ulster have been a good provider of u20s players but they then disappear from national selection once they enter the senior setup. Look at the names mentioned currently. Izzy is from tullamore, TOTs youth rugby experience was in Australia. Hopefully postlewaith realises his potential and doesn't go down the same route as Balacoune and Hume.

    Ulster fans not feeling represented on the national stage of understandable, but let's not brush over the fact that a lot of Ulster fans are simply being turned off by Ulster rugby right now.

    When their provincial woes are fixed then you can look at increasing national representation.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,481 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    I don't think there's an easy solution, but saying because results now are good then everything is ok is a bit short sighted.

    Don’t think anyone said that. The point was that we have gone from occasional giant-killing team and thinking a Triple Crown is an achievement to expecting to win pretty much every game, regardless of opposition, and we’ve maintained that for a few years now.

    Picking anyone for the Ireland team on any basis other than being the best man for the job is a terrible idea. Picking a guy just to placate “fans” is about as crazy as it gets.

    Back in the amateur days and right into the Gatland era, the coach was the coach but the team was picked by a “selection committee” who ensured a good spread among the three provinces. Coincidentally or not, we were absolutely fncking rubbish for the entire duration.

    It would be great if the provinces could develop more players but national selection is the end result, the problem is much further up the chain.

    Trying some sort of affirmative action to give each province a leg up is basically saying, these golden eggs are great and all but let's see what's inside the goose.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,115 ✭✭✭Hey_Ho_Lets_Go_3


    Ireland (v Wales):

    15. Jamie Osborne (Naas/Leinster)(5)
    14. Mack Hansen (Corinthians/Connacht)(26)
    13. Garry Ringrose (UCD/Leinster)(65)
    12. Robbie Henshaw (Buccaneers/Leinster)(79)
    11. James Lowe (Leinster)(38)
    10. Sam Prendergast (Lansdowne/Leinster)(5)
    9. Jamison Gibson-Park (Leinster)(40)

    1. Andrew Porter (UCD/Leinster)(72)
    2. Dan Sheehan (Lansdowne/Leinster)(captain)(29)
    3. Thomas Clarkson (Dublin University/Leinster)(4)
    4. Joe McCarthy (Dublin University/Leinster)(16)
    5. Tadhg Beirne (Lansdowne/Munster)(58)
    6. Peter O’Mahony (Cork Constitution/Munster)(111)
    7. Josh van der Flier (UCD/Leinster)(70)
    8. Jack Conan (Old Belvedere/Leinster)(48)

    Replacements:

    16. Gus McCarthy (UCD/Leinster)(2)
    17. Jack Boyle (UCD/Leinster)*
    18. Finlay Bealham (Corinthians/Connacht)(48)
    19. James Ryan (UCD/Leinster)(69)
    20. Cian Prendergast (UCD/Connacht)(4)
    21. Conor Murray (Garryowen/Munster)(122)
    22. Jack Crowley (Cork Constitution/Munster)(21)
    23. Bundee Aki (Galwegians/Connacht)(62)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,481 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    Great to see Cian Prendergast in the 23, Baird has been OK and no more so good to freshen it up.

    Picking Clarkson is a great call too, Bealham has been fantastic but you can never have too many tight-heads.

    Hopefully Boyle gets 20 minutes at least and can show us what he can do.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 29,524 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Happy with that team.



  • Subscribers Posts: 42,862 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Love that Ireland team



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,361 ✭✭✭P.Walnuts


    Very happy with that team



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 532 ✭✭✭johnh6767


    good team happy also. Although I wish it was announced from IRFU v Irish Times . Which is strange to say as it comes out earlier from Irish Times so logically I should be happy with that ! Happy for Cian P & Jack B in also, and of course Gus & Sam who are excelling at a very young age. Hard not to feel bad for Jack but I’m sure his day will come to show his wears.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,654 ✭✭✭50HX


    Is this a one off or has the move away from Healy permanently happened I wonder, prob not but great to see Gus & Boyle on the bench



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 577 ✭✭✭bingobango12


    Zero complaints with that to be honest.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,641 ✭✭✭✭salmocab


    I’d probably have started Crowley once I was making a few changes but that aside I’d be very happy with the team. Really looking forward to it.



  • Hosted Moderators Posts: 8,772 ✭✭✭fitz


    Nice balance of continuity and rotation. Crowley, Ryan, Prendergast, Bealham and Bundee off the bench...Wales will ship a bunch of points late in the game.

    I'm expecting Wales to have a manic first 20, but once we start racking up points, I think it's going to become a rout.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,702 ✭✭✭CMOTDibbler


    Iirc it was Joe Schmidt who put a stop to the 'selectors'. One of his conditions for accepting the job I seem to recall. Which isn't that long ago.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 460 ✭✭Tommybojangles


    I don't know if the 'fans in the other 3 provinces are getting disillusioned' thing is true, even though it gets thrown around as fact a lot. Being from Connacht and unfortunately living in Munster (That's a joke, provincial rivalries used to be a bit of craic) I certainly don't feel any different and the vast majority of Munster fans i know would be the same. Not to say there isn't bitteness towards leinster over Snyman etc (Again normal provincial rivalry) but it doesn't spill over into the national team support.

    We need to remember as well that the existing provincial system and the old rivalry bewteen the 4 provinces is one of the things that allowed Ireland to transition so seemlessly to professional rugby. When you see the Welsh regions constantly struggling for support you realise how lucky we were to have these entities already in place. So a certain amount of interprovincial sniping is natural and part of what has made Irish Rugby great in the last 20 years and shouldn't be read as 'people becoming disillusioned with the national team'. I'm also of the opinion that anyone who stops supporting the National team because there isn't enough of their province's players in the squad needs a good shake and should come support Connacht for a few years. We're in a bit of a golden age in terms of International selection since Bundee came along but for the previous 15 years it was big news when a Muldoon or a Johnny O connor snuck on to the bench for a Six Nations game



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,216 ✭✭✭✭Sangre


    Very excited to see this team play for what otherwise might have been a damp squib

    Great day for the Prendergast family.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 242 ✭✭The Macho Man


    Fair dues to Easterby for making 7 changes, albeit 2 were enforced. Clarkson, C Prendergast, G McCarthy and Boyle getting a chance. Ryan on the bench gives him a mini break so to speak, Wales will likely be well softened up when he comes on. If I was to change one thing maybe give Crowley the start but if he does come on I hope its at 10 and not FB. Speaking of FB great call to give Osborne another run there. He really looked good v SA.

    Conan I thought should've got the armband. Maybe Beirne but this call is a nod to the future and giving lads that experience.

    All in all fair play Easterby. Can't wait for Sat now!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 260 ✭✭darkened_scrum


    Good team.

    Glad Osborne is getting a game, he's too good to not play in the championship. Doris is Doris obviously but not many teams have a player of the quality of Conan to come straight into the team, there isn't a huge drop off there. Carrying on with Prendergast is the right call, had probably his best game last time and he's on an upward curve. And Ringrose back to 13 is the right call as well, can we stop messing about with the 13 jersey and just leave Ringrose in place please.

    Edit - and Cian Prendergast, think he deserves his shot as well. Hopefully no injuries and he'll come on for POM on ~50 mins and get a good go at it.

    The only selection that feels slightly, a teeny bit off (or more-so inconsistent) to me is Clarkson. It feels unusual for this Irish management to pick a guy from relatively far down the depth chart and elevate him up this quickly without really needing to. But the flipside of that is there is uncertainty about Furlong and say Bealham went and got injured, you could be bringing him in cold in a less controlled way. It's not a big deal, just doesn't feel the same as other selections/positions maybe. And tbh (and to be clear, this means absolutely nothing, I'm an internet keyboard warrior like the rest of us) I just didn't have him pegged as an international TH from watching him with Leinster.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,627 ✭✭✭Packrat


    I assume Sheehan is expected to go 80 to give him game time. I wonder if that's why he got the armband over Beirne or PoM who I thought would be more obvious captains.

    If I wanted to make mischief, I'd say it's a wonder they didn't give it to SP.... ;-) But that would be just stirring so I won't..

    “The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command”



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,269 ✭✭✭Must love hardship


    Any idea when A team is announced?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,361 ✭✭✭P.Walnuts


    Hanson needs a big game

    And if he doesn't, I'd like to see Nash back in for France



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,869 ✭✭✭Brief_Lives




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,508 ✭✭✭Wegians89


    Nash did absolutely nothing against Scotland bar walk in a try he couldn’t miss and chase down a few kicks.

    Hansen was far more involved and offered so much more around the pitch against England.

    Statistically speaking in this Six Nations:

    Hansen has 5 tackles (71%) to Nash’s 4 (67%)
    Hansen has 8 carries for a total of 28m to Nash’s 4 carries for 5m

    Hansen has 4 defenders beaten to Nash’s 0

    Hansen has 10 touches to Nash’s 5

    The only areas Nash come out on top is one less penalty conceded and a 50% Ruck effectiveness to Hansens 14%.

    Hansen isn’t at his best but he’s slowly getting back there after nearly a year out.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 242 ✭✭The Macho Man


    I'd beg to differ re TC. I've watched him live, last game I saw was v Bath, looked very comfortable in the scrum and really got around the park well. Hasn't put a foot wrong, impressed against the Eng scrum.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 260 ✭✭darkened_scrum


    I'm not up in arms about it or anything and I hope he goes well this weekend.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,481 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    The only selection that feels slightly, a teeny bit off (or more-so inconsistent) to me is Clarkson. It feels unusual for this Irish management to pick a guy from relatively far down the depth chart and elevate him up this quickly without really needing to.

    I don't really know what you mean by "off", but I would disagree that we don't need to test Clarkson.

    Bealham has been great but he's 33. Furlong is 32 and will (IMO) never be the player he was. Unlike others, front row is not a position where you can move a guy in to fill a gap.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,361 ✭✭✭P.Walnuts


    I mean I'm not sure stats from 1 game each is really relevant?

    Nash has been in better form for quite a while now.

    I also did say Hansen needs a big game, not that he shouldn't be starting or be dropped regardless for France, I think that's fair.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,837 ✭✭✭✭phog


    Nash had one start from 3 games, Hansen had two starts so more game time. yet the stats you use don't really show Hansen as being that far ahead in their stats tally.

    Hansen seems to be another coach favourite so no doubt he'll start unless injured though I would have started Nash for some of the AIs and I think he should start v Italy.



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