Accidental Landlord Question -

Mixing up your figure the landlord got 85k then tenant got a benefit of at least 90k and it was over 7 years not 12. What is with the exaggeration?

If they rented it out properly they would have charge market rates and paid tax. This would have meant whom ever their tenant would pay more and they would have no tax liability and they still would have had their mortgage paid. The benefit has been to the tenant not the landlord in this case. If you can't see that and want the landlord punished it isn't about them making money but some form of vengeance

It's been rented for 12 years, 2013-2025, €575 for the first 5, (2013-2018, €34,500) then upped to 675 for the next 5 years (2018-2023, €40,500) til they increased it to 800 in 2024.(€9,600 + €1,600 for Jan and Feb this year so a total of €86,200.

You can say if all you want to, the fact is that they didn't do this, your hypothetical scenario is irrelevant.

They have had a sizeable amount paid towards their mortgage, tax free and deserve to be punished for it.

Have they paid towards their mortgage or have the repayments been covered by their tenants? They have benefitted greatly from this scenario.

I do understand them and would love if someone covered my mortgage payments for 12 years.

It is not free indeed, however they have provided us no evidence for any costs.

My bad I mixed up the figures.

The tenant did fabulously well.

Revenue will take that into account they didn't benefit and won't be as harsh as you would like which probably will really annoy you.

My hypothetical is very relevant but you want to ignore it because you are rabid when it comes to landlords. The tenant benefit amazingly from this and you don't want to admit it because you have blind hatred. I can't imagine you as a happy person because you would lose so much of your identity. Not many people would hate their landlord for undercharging them for rent but I can see them hate them for raising rent.

@Gary_dunne

I do understand them and would love if someone covered my mortgage payments for 12 years.

You clearly do not understand them if you don't know the difference between rent in exchange for use of a property and someone just covering your mortgage for 12 yrs.. it's risk and reward stuff Gary. If your goal is to bash or treat all landlords as pariahs that prey and exploit tenants, then I am wasting my time trying to change your bias.

The disappointing news for you is the OP will not be severely punished for their naievity or anything close to it.

RTB aren't your problem Revenue are. You need an accountant ASAP. Sounds like you will need to sell the property as you can't increase the rent and will have a decent tax bill. Some people would be close enough to the tenant that they would try and sort it all out by giving them some cash and let the find another place. Or even wait till the RPZ changes rules. Either way the tenant did well and will have to move one way or the other

@Lipbalmpam

just hope the revenue bill won't be crippling.

Going by the figures you posted, tax owed each year should not be too high.

First you need to register property with RTB, then you can offset interest on your mortgage each year which will be most of what you were paying in the first few years. (Just interest, not full amount paid each month/year)

Tax due = rent received each year less:

• mortgage interest (capped at 75% for few early years)
• repairs /maintenance
• Insurance
• Capital allowance of 12.5% on flooring/furniture/appliances for 8yrs

Your bank can help you with interest certs for each year if you do not have them. You may struggle to find repair costs receipts going back each year

You will need et an accountant to do your return. Their fee is tax deductable too. Ask the accountant to bill or include fee for work on each year rather than a full amount for all the work. That will reduce you taxable profit each year (if applicable after deductions) and thus tax due and interest thereon.

Hypothetical return for one year

Rent: €6000

Interest: €4000

Repairs/Maintenance: €500

Capital Allowance: €400

Accountant: €200

Insurance: €300

Taxable profit : €600

Tax @ x% (your applicable.rate) plus PRSI and USC at relevant % for income

As you are in a RPZ you will not be able to increase rent as planned 1400. Around €800 may be as high as you can go.

Maybe if the rules change as per on going discussion you will be able to reset. Nobody knows how this will turn out. If not, it may be time to sell up. Your case highlights how unfair the caps are to people who charged a low rent before rent caps came in

Finally, don't mind the few negative posts. Says more about them than you. You are not the first to be in this situation.

Best wishes

@jo187

Have you read the first post? The landlord has been the opposite of greedy..

If tenant is struggling so much one could ask why they are not claiminf rent credit or why not applying for HAP or other housing benefits to help pay for rent.

So many ways to look at this.

Maybe they were happy not to because they knew they had an exceptional deal. Now that deal is in jeopardy, they are playing poor mouth and looking for landlord to feel pity or be a social service? Ultimately what the temp can pay is not the landlords problem. Ireland is an expensive place to live.

There are some people getting rent assistance that do not need them. If you ask me, that is greed.

I just jumped on this thread for a read. My God you sound like one very bitter, begrudging person.

On the other hand the OP has been totally honest in their posting, knowing they could get negative feedback but still admitting their fault in this. My sympathy is with them as they have been very fair and generous to their long term tenants over the years. I hope Revenue will be easy to deal with and I suspect they will. My brother works in Revenue and they regularly come to a deal or a payment plan in situations like this. Good luck OP.

So be it if they can't afford to live and work in Ireland without some individual subsidising their housing they should move. It isn't greed it is being tax compliant where the landlord ends up with less money.

You are more than welcome to subsidse them yourself

What? I'm glad you not effected by the housing crisis or people you know.

But they are plenty of are. For me if my rent goes up more ( with rpz being changed, who knows).

There is no where in our area or near by that we could rent. Due to there being no properties or prices to high.

This is two working adults, if two working people can't afford accommodation there something wrong with the market.

I not being subsidsed or wanting to. Born and bred in Ireland, if you think the solution is leaving the country, people are.

The young are emigrating, nurses, teachers etc.

But I'm sure you won't complain when there are no nurses to look after you and teachers to teach your kids, once the landlord gets to make maximum profits.

If the cost of providing a service increases I expect the service price to increase that is my position. There is no subsidising by the tenant as they are buying the service. Sorry if you don't understand basic economic or the word subsidise

Nope. Completely hypocritical positions. It's up to you to make an investment if you want. You take on the risks and get the reward. If you take on too much risk, then that is on you. You don't get to double dip to demand a bailout just because you were greedy and took an option that might have increased your reward while increasing your risk. Maybe that fixed rate mortgage might have cost you an extra 50 quid a month a few years back. You wanted to keep that 50 Euro in your pocket - that's your choice.

One of the main issues with opinions on here, which I mentioned above appears to be that there are amateurs who jump blindly headlong into these things, complain there are regulations once they learn the hard way and say "why is it not like any other business". The reason they think that is that they have no experience with running any other business. They just have some fantasy idealised idea of what "other business" is - the same as they had for "landlording"

Let me ask you the reverse question Ray. If you are/were-to-become a landlord, do/would you reduce your rents as the mortgage is paid down , i.e. to to reflect the reducing interest component of your repayments? i.e. roughly speaking if you borrow 200k at 3%, then in your first year you will be accruing approximately 6k in interest. Years later, when you (i.e. your tenant's money) have paid down the capital to 100k, and interest rates have increased to 4%, do you reduce the rent by 2k to reflect that?

Oh - what's that you say - the subsidy only works one way - eh?

Am I saying that the decreased costs entitles the tenant to a reduction - no. The same as I'm saying an increased cost would not entitle you to an increase. In fact, that is entirely in your favour as you can hedge any rate increase, whereas you will automatically and always benefit from capital being paid down.

I would put money on guessing that if I asked you whether increases in taxes on rental income or rental properties should be passed to the tenant you would say "yes".

In contrast, I would also put money on guessing that if I asked you whether decreases in such taxes should be passed on to the tenant you would say "no".

This is such a messed up thread and showes the serious issues with Ireland and the people here now.

OP not paying tax on their rental income for YEARS, mortgage of €600 being paid €800 and moaning because they are only making a €200 profit? Are you forgetting the €600 being paid off YOUR asset every month

I own a house now, If I ever did let it out I would be more than happy with it paying itself of every month nevermind a €200 profit after the fact, and I can tell you my Mortgage would be no where near €1400 a month, which your going to lose nearly half off on tax anyway once you declare. a

You can't up the rent to that much anyway thankfully for the tenant, because its not there fault you failed to declare your income and due to it being a RPZ I hope they know their rights are not effect by your inability to follow tenancy laws

There is greed from the tenants too. They want to continue to benefit from a situation that most of their neighbours who are paying the market rent don't benefit from.