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Russia-Ukraine War (continuing)

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,152 ✭✭✭ilkhanid


    Two additional points should be noted. First: Most of the victims of Bandera and his followers were Poles, yet we don't see today's Poles foaming at the mouth about the ''UkroNazi'' state. Second: If collaborating with the Nazis, even for one's own ends is a sign of intrinsic turpitude where does that leave Stalin's USSR, which worked with the Nazis to carve up eastern Europe and in so doing, perpetrated massacres and deportations in Poland and the Baltic States with a death toll that put those of the Banderites in the shade.

    Post edited by ilkhanid on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,277 ✭✭✭brickster69


    Seems like half of the 7 mile long cauldron has closed west of Kurakhove. Looks like another chaotic retreat underway as the Russians have now entered and taken positions in Konstantyinopil.

    kuak.jpg

    "if you get on the wrong train, get off at the nearest station, the longer it takes you to get off, the more expensive the return trip will be."



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,740 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    Ukraine didn't want a war with Russia but it got one. Someone else may have to soon. If not troops, fighter planes, missiles and intel.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,723 ✭✭✭✭BorneTobyWilde


    US is not going to throw Ukraine under the bus, people are falling for the Russian propaganda .

    How is it even possible to do a deal with Russia to end the war, without Ukraine agreeing



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,458 ✭✭✭zv2


    ….

    It looks like history is starting up again.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 678 ✭✭✭engineerws


    https://notesfrompoland.com/2023/01/02/poland-condemns-ukraines-commemoration-of-wartime-nationalist-leader-bandera/

    After officials and institutions in Ukraine – including the national parliament – marked the birth anniversary of nationalist leader Stepan Bandera, Polish government figures have criticised the commemoration of a man they see as responsible for the genocide of ethnic Poles and Jews.

    I never thought I'd see Irish people defending Banderas.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 678 ✭✭✭engineerws


    For a country that didn't want war there was a massive increase in ceasefire violations recorded by the osce in the run up to the war in 2022. Also, their commitment to join their bigger neighbors biggest enemy (NATO) suggests Ukraine were at the minimum playing a dangerous game.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,458 ✭✭✭zv2


    People need to get this nazi thing sorted out once and for all. Ukrainian nazis were not the same as the German ones. They simply joined with the Germans because that was a good way of fighting against the Russians. And yes, nasty things happened but it is disingenuous to dig into history to justify Putin's crimes. Russia has an appalling history that could be easily used against it. And should be because they are still the same violent regime.

    It looks like history is starting up again.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,766 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    They didnt want war.

    Russia brought war. They violated Budapest. They invaded. They tried to destabilise Ukraine with economic blockade threats.

    There was no real ceasefire. It was a sham from Russia who pretended Minsk had nothing to do with it.

    Same tactics of lies and propaganda we saw when Russian backed and armed forces shooting down a civilian airliner over Ukraine.

    Nobody can take your desperate attempts to dig up Nazi nonsense seriously while you say nothing about Russias Nazis eg Wagner group.

    Their commitment to join NATO was forced on them by Russia demonstrating it could not tolerate a militarily neutral independent but pro EU state in its vicinity.

    Or be reduced to a vassal state like Belarus.

    But if course your posts demonstrate you are perfectly happy for Russia to Belarus other countries and dont understand why some countries resist such an outcome.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,723 ✭✭✭✭BorneTobyWilde


    ''The US sent a document to European governments asking what the countries could contribute towards Ukraine's security arrangements, it has emerged.

    The questionnaire sent asked European nations what they would need from Washington to participate in security arrangements.

    The document consisted of six points and questions, asking which countries could contribute to Ukraine's security, and which would be willing to send troops as part of a peace deal''



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,797 ✭✭✭yagan


    How can anyone answer when they don't know what the "deal" is?

    And why would anyone volunteer to Trump ceding anything to Putin?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,723 ✭✭✭✭BorneTobyWilde


    Macron wants an invitation to a party he's not invited to



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,723 ✭✭✭✭BorneTobyWilde


    Trump knows it's a deal breaker if Ukraine has no security guarantees, and he won't use US Troops, so he needs Europe to step up to get a deal done. All the EU countries combined could put 250,000 troops in Ukraine.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 29,651 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Yes well, those of their neighbours who actually managed to join NATO have not been invaded by Russia and those that have not almost universally have been. So joining NATO seems a pretty good bet for anyone trying to avoid being invaded by Russia.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,456 ✭✭✭✭TheValeyard


    All eyes on Kursk. Slava Ukraini.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,723 ✭✭✭✭BorneTobyWilde


    🇺🇸

    Ukraine could automatically become a member of NATO if Russia violates ceasefire according to plan of senators,



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,797 ✭✭✭yagan


    Who appointed Trump as negotiator?

    Trump is Putin's asset so why should anyone listen to what that freak has to say?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,723 ✭✭✭✭BorneTobyWilde


    After all this time someone has to step up when no one else would



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,879 ✭✭✭✭Loafing Oaf


    Is it clear where the troopd would be stationed? I'm guessing Russia would keep most of the land it has helped itself to and an outer corridor bordering Ukraine proper would become sort of DMZ…



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,797 ✭✭✭yagan


    What's Ukraine being doing?

    Are you actually taking the piss?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,011 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Any country can join NATO if they wish, it's their choice. Putin didn't want Ukraine to join NATO because he was planning to illegally invade it. As evidenced by the fact he invaded it.

    He can't admit he wants to seize the country and plant a flag in it so, like Hitler, he creates this narrative that Russia, which no one wants to invade, is being "surrounded" by a defensive organisation. It's for domestic propaganda, but obviously works abroad too.

    Russia, one of the largest land-masses in the world, is expanding in the last 10 years.

    Haven't you maybe noticed that?

    If Putin were to invade e.g. Moldova tomorrow, what propaganda would he use to validate that? Think. Nazi's. They were too pro-EU. The Russians there need to be protected. They were thinking of joining NATO.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,655 ✭✭✭Infini


    Truth is if Trump tries to go sucking up to Putin he's likely to be ignored, ridiculed and at worst risk retalitory measures by Europe against American Buisness interests belonging to Musk and friends for a start. Attempting to remove sanctions will definately draw a major retaliation on him as well. If anything him trying to negotiate for Ukraine without their consent is going to make him look impotent when everyone turns around and disregards his supposed deal with no regard for todays reality.

    The only way this war ends is with the back of the Vatnik State broken and Russia left in a position it cannot sustain any further combat. This is also an important factor as if they were to win in Ukraine, Putin cant make that conscript army dissapear as hes wrecked his economy he has to direct them somewhere else and the Baltics would be next. They dont value human life, they hold no regards for the rules of war and deliberately attack civilian targets and their word is worthless. They broke every agreement they signed in the past. The only way this war doesnt start up again IMO is Ukraine is in NATO or its armed with Nukes as the only way to kowtow the Vatnik state.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,456 ✭✭✭✭TheValeyard


    All eyes on Kursk. Slava Ukraini.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,761 ✭✭✭macraignil


    Bandera was assassinated in 1959 and grew up in Poland. Lots of Irish people do not know who he was or the role he played in history but anything he did do or the views people in Ukraine have of him are no justification for present day terrorists being sent to Ukraine by putin. You seem to be grasping at straws to justify your dear leader **** container being of sound mind in trying to reestablish the USSR with him as the Tzar.

    Edit: I did not type **** container in place of poo tin but tried to actually spell out the accurate description of the leader of the terrorist state attacking Europe and causing the deaths of thousands and the lives of a much larger number of people to be destroyed.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,011 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    If NATO stays in it's current form, Putin won't accept this.

    There are a million ideas like this, parlour tricks, and while some may sound cool, the reality is not looking good for Ukraine. Trump will likely push them to the brink and further, whilst the invader will get nothing but gains.

    If Ukraine rejects, they will be cast (alongside Europe) as not wanting peace and Trump will withdraw US support (his "art of the deal" crap) + worse. Maybe even leave NATO.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,363 ✭✭✭Field east


    the mind boggles - . sending a questionnaire out at that level. I thought that such issues would be handled/ discussed at the highest level and involving the most senior officials and in a very secret /safe and secure environment and over a number of meetings.nGod help us!!!!!!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,797 ✭✭✭yagan


    Ukraine didn't want to be invaded.

    Theres no proof that Putin can be trusted.

    Theres no proof that Trump can be trusted.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,363 ✭✭✭Field east


    Why would Trump want 250,000 troops in UKr if Putin guarantees that he will not OVERSTEP the agreed boundary between UKR and Ru?!!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,797 ✭✭✭yagan


    It was probably a Musk idea like his "fork in the road" email he sent out after he took over Twitter.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,740 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    Ukraine didn't expect an invasion but got one.

    There's proof that Putin can't be trusted.

    Trump is so unreliable.

    Ukraine still has the ultimate say if the EU continues support, as it looks like it will. Without the US as an ally they will be free to attack parts of the Russian economy that were off limits before. i.e. port oil pumping facilities to Russians shadow fleet. Perhaps flatten the Kerch bridge as a sign of intent?



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