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Window Handles breaking

  • 14-02-2025 12:46PM
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,045 ✭✭✭


    We have windows fitted 3.5yrs now and the first handle has now broken (internal mechanism) and several others feel like they're about to go. Is it worth pursuing the provider or are guarantees related to the glass and frame only?



Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 343 ✭✭fatty pang


    Any guarantee is secondary and generally full of escape clauses for the benefit of the supplier. The sale of goods act (you bought a ‘good’ from the supplier) is applicable and gives you far more protection and subsequent recourse.

    Per the sale of goods act the windows, must be ‘of merchantable quality’ and fortunately there are numerous harmonised EN standards that can demonstrate the quality of windows. In this case EN 13126 – 8 covers cyclic testing of the hardware. The lowest classification, Class 1, requires the window to be tested to at least 10,000 cycles (opening & closing) . Being generous to the supplier and assuming that the window is operated 3 times a day, every day, that amounts to less than 4000 cyclic operations over the 3 ½ years - demonstrably not meeting the lowest necessary standard to be described as of merchantable quality. Given that several others “feel like they’re about to go” you are either unusually heavy handed, or far more likely, the mechanisms are of poor quality.

    In the first instance I would take it up with the supplier and request that they replace the entire mechanism(s). If they aren’t helpful (many are helpful as the value their reputation) then I would suggest getting a quote to have the window repaired by a competent person and then make an application to the small claims court for the cost of the repair. The application should quote the standard above. When the other handles inevitably fail repeat the process.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,045 ✭✭✭yellow hen


    Thank you for that really useful reply, it's really helpful. We've gotten a recommendation for a good local repairs guy (we have a door handle needing work that is older and a different supplier originally). I'll ask him to check the windows and get his opinion.

    As an aside, we recently broke a ground floor window (child & sliotar) and we got the company out to repair it, he told us the windows were put in backways and he could open the frame and remove the glass from the outside. He said he was a major error. The company we used were a large reputable company from Roscommon…I didn't follow up on that with them but fee like I should as maybe there's a thread of poor service here.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 72,746 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    My parents house was broken in to that way, window glass removed from the outside. Installers were absolute cowboys so it wouldn't surprise me if a window was ordered for the wrong direction and installed backwards.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,873 ✭✭✭10-10-20


    If the glass units have a low-e coating then it matters as to which way the windows are installed as there is a heat-reflective film on the outer side of the inner pane; otherwise it doesn't. I'd be verifying that info with the suppliers/installers first. If they are low-e then with the two main glass manufacturers it should be blindingly obvious at the point of install as they place massive "outside" stickers onto the appropriate side.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 72,746 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    I'm pretty certain they mean the glass was installed from the outside and the removable elements of the frame that hold the glass in are on the outside; not that the panes are backwards.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,045 ✭✭✭yellow hen


    Does that relate more to the glass rather than the frame? Just to clarify, this is what the window looks like fro the outside. Those frames snap open to remove the glass. The company have come back to say that's how they install them. Full stop.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,873 ✭✭✭10-10-20


    "As an aside, we recently broke a ground floor window (child & sliotar) and we got the company out to repair it, he told us the windows were put in backways and he could open the frame and remove the glass from the outside. "

    On reading that again, I think it could be understood both ways! But yes, your interpretation is correct. But the replacement glass installer saying that he could reverse this made me think that it was the glass units rather than the frames…

    That's the way that some frames are manufactured with beading on the exterior. There is much discussion online about it. It's not the preferred method from a security stand-point, but the mitigation would be to have knock sensors on the frames to detect intrusion attempts. Other mitigation may be to install a security screw into the beading on opposite sides (no need for all four beads). But it can't be 'reversed' as the windows open outwards.

    https://www.doorandwindowexperts.co.uk/14046/are-externally-beaded-windows-safe/

    https://www.garda.ie/en/crime-prevention/crime-prevention/hs3-home-security-windows-2020.pdf



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 223 ✭✭bfclancy2


    the handles would be on the outside then wouldn't they, it would be apparent fairly quickly they were backwards



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 343 ✭✭fatty pang


    we got the company out to repair it, he told us the windows were put in backways and he could open the frame and remove the glass from the outside. He said he was a major error.

    That's a very surprising observation from a representative of the window company.

    One particular Roscommon window company notes on their website that ‘all our windows meet PAS24 standards’. This is an enhanced security standard so it’s not as if this window company are completely unaware of security standards. It may not have been the case when you bought your widows and they have subsequently changed their systems. Unfortunately, unlike our neighbouring jurisdictions, there is no mention in our Building Regulations about the use of enhanced security windows and doors. These products are readily available, have a marginal additional cost and there is clear evidence to show how they have reduced the incidence of burglary. Financially from a societal perspective, such measures are a no-brainer.

    Talk to Joe - you have the makings of a pretty good Liveline story.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 343 ✭✭fatty pang


    The Garda guidance is gas - recommending a minimum thickness of glass (6.4mm laminate) that doesn't meet the requirements of either of the security standards they recommend - Pas 24 & EN1627.

    Typical



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,873 ✭✭✭10-10-20




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