Hamas strike on Israel - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

Your musings are indeed increasingly weak but I am curious about something unrelated to Gaza. I detested the IRA terrorists in NI throughout the troubles. I saw their actions as utterly loathsome and cowardly. Killing and maiming innocent civilians, men women and children, with hidden explosives - sick cowardly lunatics. I will never forgive them or vote SF as a result. I met John Hume a few times and I was in awe of the man and his quest for peace. I got a lot of stick during the 80s from friends and acquaintances for slating the IRA scum. I understood why they existed but I hated their actions. Obviously the British army/administration and Unionist terrorists were no angels either but I digress.

The iRA were referred to as freedom fighters many times because they were trying to get rid of an occupying power and get self determination as part of unification. To be honest, most IRA terrorists were out for themselves and financial gain and some were simply violent psychopaths who liked torture and kneecapping kids. Brave. They were also motivated somewhat by religious nonsense.

My question to you - were people correct or incorrect to refer to the disgusting IRA terrorists as freedom fighters? Yes or No.

Im no hamas supporter, they took control nearly 20yrs ago in palestine. They no longer represent the people and should be treated as terrorists. So we agree on one thing.

But what you fail to see is Israel, led by netanyahu, who has been re-elected since 2009, bar a 2yr period, represents a large proportion of Israeli's. Israel can only hand back so many detainees because they have taken so many. Detainees fall into a number of categories, namely 2, hamas terrorists and hostages. The hostages are children, men, women of all walks of life. Taken, imprisoned without reason or due process.

The reason my previous post may look pre hamas is beacuse Israeli actions steep so far lower than Hamas themselves. How humilliating it must be for the millions of Israeli's that don't support Netanyahu to see their country turn into such a sorry state.

A key issue is that the IDF and the Israeli Government are acting like Hamas - they have been employing terror tactics since day one. The 200k dead Palestinians are testament to that. The dust and rubble of Gaza is proof. The dead medics, journalists and even nuns are testament to that. The lad who was anally raped by the IDF is testament to that. And that's just the reports that we know about.

Independent Journalists have not been allowed into Gaza for well over a year. Israel refused an independent UN investigation into sexual violence perpetrated by Hamas. Why? Because the UN wanted to also investigate Israel's alleged sexual violence in their prison/torture camps.

Zaka lied through their teeth to make a few quid out of Israelis - beheaded babies and all that.

But the remarkable outcome is that some folks here either wilfully ignore it or even support it. Even when corroborated evidence is supplied as proof.

The IDF and the Israeli Govt have brought shame on the average Israeli who is disgusted at the position they have been put in.

The IDF and the Israeli Govt. are worse than Hamas. War Criminals and perpetrators of Genocide, rapists and murderers.

There has not been one cogent and logical defensive argument for any of the horrors perpetrated on the Palestinians.

Nobody thinks "the Jews" are responsible for these all these deaths @sheepysheep, just the IDF and politicians currently in power in Israel.

Do you not accept that there are plenty of Jewish people completely opposed to this violence, inside Israel and out, and this slaughter isn't being done in their name? Most people criticising Israeli brutality in this conflict also stand with "the Jews".

Whilst you are on your crusade of baselessly and incorrectly slurring everyone you want to shout down as anti semetic - can you please explain if you do actually think the killing of those innocent people on October 7th outweigh the many many multiples of innocent people killed since? Because that is how I read your posts, and I'm open to correction if I'm wrong.

What touches a nerve is the repetitiion of a well known lie. A lie that is only ever repeated by those with a Hamas apologist outlook. You repeat this lie because the lie makes Israel look bad.

A theory has to be supported by evidence. It's well known in academic circles that you can't prove a negative. I can't prove that fairies don't exist. If you want to make such claims about fairies or 200k dead you need to provide evidence of fact, not a link to the original theory.

No credible person believs in fairies. No credible person believs in the 200k theory, because you have no evidence of 200k dead bodies.

@sheepysheep I asked a yes/no question above. Any chance?

In fairness, this is a classic.

'I'm not antiemitic, i just wants a single state solution', via, I suppose, the complte eradication of the state of Israel.

That particular ship hasn't just sailed, it's about as robust as the titanic.

People were incorrect to refer to them as freedom fighters for all the reasons you outlined above.

So, my question back at you is this.

If you take a hard line on the iRA and all the other Loyalist terror groups too, why do you take a soft line on Hamas and constantly apologise for their actions.

Months ago, I made a simple assertion that the simpliest way to end the way was for hamas to surrender.

I was attacked by you and 13 other posters who all made various pro-hamas arguements, one even mawkisly lamenting that he would never be as brave as old sinwar himself.

Your particular arguement was that the poor dear hamas fighters might be killed while surrendering. Good riddance i would say.

@blanch reveived the same treatment over the last week for making the same assertion. Surrender, and end the war. Release the hostages, and protect the peace.

An awful lot of people on this thread who 'aren't antsemitic' sure do spend an awful lot of their time making a lot of clearly antisemitic posts.

Likewise, an awful lot ofpeople who 'don't support hamas' only seem to be able to tolerate the concept of peace in Gaza on Hamas terms, and not Israel's.

I certainly do not need to make Israel look bad - they're doing mighty without me.

As previously requested, please provide the evidence you claim debunks the Lancet article plus the CNN report of it.

But I think you're overreaching if you think these eminent scholars are lying.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Over to you.

You could also say that their treatment at the hands of Israel bred the terrorists.

That we can agree on.

But I'll pull you up one more time on your post - you stated that Israelis died "in the chaos" and the fog of war.

No - Israelis died because the IDF were ordered to kill them. The Israelis were deliberately murdered. It wasn't friendly fire or the fog of war or chaos. It was ordered.

God love those terrified people fleeing for their lives to what they thought was a position of safety and protection. Only to be gunned down and shredded by their own people - that is what the Hannibal Directive is.

Thats not what I meant. I mean a single Palestine state, rather than two fractured parts. Is that not what most people mean when they say a single state ? you should have worked that out anyway, as I spoke of how Netanyahu conspired to keep the two parts of Palestine separate, so he could continue his land grab over peace.

What's a "potential hostage"?

People are ordered to kill people every day in war. Do you think it's optional? You'll literally be shot if you don't kill.

If you're asking me do I agree with the Hannibel directive, then no, I think it's crazy.

...that anybody who holds civilian life - Israeli and Palestinian - as being equal, are somehow antisemetic for their criticism of Israel's brutality, when they are the ones responsible for that vast vast amounts of civilians killed.

Care to answer my question now?