Israel/Palestine Thread

Spudmonkey · 13-02-2025 03:53PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123167534#Comment_123167534

Well tbh, I posted that seen as it was from a reputable publication. I mean I don't have to go far to find other violations and here and here….

So same question as above applies…..

"Why is Hamas, a non-state actor, morally expected to honour an agreement that the Israelis, a state actor, legally violated?"

I mean, I would expect it to be pretty easy to answer no? Why are you defending the party that has broken the ceasefire?

Oh and feel free to answer any of the other questions above as well…

blanch152 · 13-02-2025 04:02PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123167612#Comment_123167612

Allegedly violated? Or legally violated?

Careful with your language again.

Spudmonkey · 13-02-2025 04:07PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123167643#Comment_123167643

Are you saying the killing of Palestinians in Gaza since the ceasefire does not constitute a violation of the ceasefire?

blanch152 · 13-02-2025 04:10PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123167661#Comment_123167661

I am saying that it is alleged that the killing of Palestinians in Gaza since the ceasefire constitutes a violation of the ceasefire.

Spudmonkey · 13-02-2025 04:13PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123167671#Comment_123167671

Oh right… the auld state actor thing again…

They get to hide behind that with impunity. Got it!

Nugget89 · 13-02-2025 04:25PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123167671#Comment_123167671

What does that even mean? Are you saying that Israel hasn't killed people in Gaza since the ceasefire? Or are you trying to say that the cessation of fire isn't actually a part of the agreed ceasefire?

Bishop of hope · 13-02-2025 04:27PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123167251#Comment_123167251

If they dont or cant be made to, whats the point in having these courts?

So what's your plan for Gaza and the hostages. I gave mine, you addressed one part, what do you think Hamas should do?

Odhinn · 13-02-2025 04:33PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123167486#Comment_123167486

We recently had a garda jailed over sexually assaulting a woman in a garda station. I'm not seeing claims that all gardai are sexual assaulters etc.

Cluedo Monopoly · 13-02-2025 04:55PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123167767#Comment_123167767

There are 30,000 people in UNRWA too.

13-02-2025 05:01PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123167069#Comment_123167069

Ethnic cleansing of Hamas? How would they do that to Hamas, a terrorist organisation?

Miniegg · 13-02-2025 05:34PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123167857#Comment_123167857

What - given Israel's conduct in the last year, and their discussions with Donald Trump regarding the mass removal of Palestinians from their historic homeland- makes you think that Netenyahu and his government have any intention of limiting their ethnic cleansing to Hamas?

Sudden Valley · 13-02-2025 05:40PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123167857#Comment_123167857

Ethnic cleansing of the Gazans. It shouldnt have to repeated to anyone that Trump refered to expelling all Gazans not just Hamas members and taking control of the area for america.

Miniegg · 13-02-2025 05:40PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123166980#Comment_123166980

In your language, not mine, what specific actions that Israel have carried out do you condemn, with regard to their treatment of Palestinian civilians during this war?

@blanch152, how is your reply to this coming along?

I've removed all problematic aspects of my original question that made you too uncomfortable to respond. Will you have a go at answering now?

If not, I would appreciate if you would let me know what reason is preventing you from replying to the post?

dmcdona · 13-02-2025 05:49PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123167746#Comment_123167746

You posted that Israel should be held legally accountable… so given you say Israel can't be made to be held legally accountable, your point seems utterly pointless?

I've given my plan for Gaza on numerous occasions plus extensively covered what I think Hamas should do -perhaps go back through the thread to see those posts.

dmcdona · 13-02-2025 05:58PM

Seems to me that the arguments for defending the actions of Israel are quickly petering out and there's a lot of straws being grasped to try and continue the justification for mass murder, War Crimes and Genocide.

There is no evidence provided so the de facto response when challenged seems to be "do you condemn…". Of course, those who have some humanity in them are of course condemning murder. From the other side, just crickets.

I've yet to see anyone supporting Israel come up with a cogent argument supported or corroborated by independent evidence or commentary that justifies the current situation.

Perhaps it is simply that there is no justification other than the murders of Israelis of Oct 7th - many of whom died at at the hands of the IDF. And that was 16 months ago.

Fuascailteoir · 13-02-2025 06:05PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123166650#Comment_123166650

You really are just bluffing and floundering. Of course a population has a right to self defence under international law as is laid out under protocol 1 of the Geneva convention.

dmcdona · 13-02-2025 06:09PM

Good news - Hamas have agree to continue to honour the terms of the cease fire agreement and release 3 more hostages on Saturday.

I'm sure everyone here will be delighted and express their gratitude for Hamas doing the right thing and also to condemn Israel for breaching the agreement.

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c3vpqr6511yo

Spudmonkey · 13-02-2025 06:12PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123168102#Comment_123168102

"I'm sure everyone here will be delighted and express their gratitude for Hamas doing the right thing and also to condemn Israel for breaching the agreement."

allegedly..

dmcdona · 13-02-2025 06:18PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123168120#Comment_123168120

Not allegedly any more (behind a paywall, sorry. Will update later)

Haaretz:
Israel Gambles With Hostage Release as Netanyahu Delays Negotiations on Next Stage

As part of the deal, the two sides are set for 35 days of indirect talks, but Netanyahu has delayed progress. He is also using Trump's volatile comments to pressure Hamas, a risky move that may backfire.

blanch152 · 13-02-2025 06:20PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123168092#Comment_123168092

States have a right to self-defence, non-state actors don't.

Edit: Are you suggesting that Hamas are the legal army of the legal state of Palestine?

blanch152 · 13-02-2025 06:32PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123168102#Comment_123168102

Absolutely delighted that Hamas will stick to the agreed arrangements.

However, in the same way that I wouldn't congratulate a man who stopped beating his wife for stopping beating his wife, I am hardly going to express gratitude to Hamas for stopping committing the war crimes they were committing.

Suckler · 13-02-2025 06:39PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123168166#Comment_123168166

Edit: Are you suggesting that Hamas are the legal army of the legal state of Palestine?

If all else fails misrepresent the wording.

The previous poster referred to the specific Protocol amendment. Israel have demonstrably just ignored many (of not the vast majority) of articles therein - Articles 48 & 51 without question but also add 1 / 15 / 16 / 20 / 34 / Part IV Articles 72 - 79.

But tell us again why the Palestinian civilians have no right to self defence.

dmcdona · 13-02-2025 06:39PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123168207#Comment_123168207

And the condemnation for Israel breaching the terms of the ceasefire?

You seem to be happy to egg the other wife-beater on or at least ignore him?

Your condemnation of Israel will confirm.

blanch152 · 13-02-2025 06:41PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123168236#Comment_123168236

You are congratulating Hamas, I haven't congratulated Israel at all.

No more needs to be said.

Sudden Valley · 13-02-2025 06:42PM

Israel is not just attacking a non state actors it is also killing civilians in Gaza. The war crimes they are accused of commiting are against these civilians. Does Gaza have the right to self defence against Israel?

As Palestine is not recognised as a state then I guess the innocents could be considered under the protection of the Israeli state. Though israel seems to treat them as mere speed bumps when going after Hamas.

Cluedo Monopoly · 13-02-2025 06:43PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123168207#Comment_123168207

Only a matter of time before you start spouting bird law. Anyway, now that the ceasefire agreement is back on track (although you never allude to any of the Israel violations e.g. delivery of tents for homeless civilians), do you want to outline some of the Israeli war crimes over the last year or so? You seem to be allergic to any questions about them. Do you not have a balanced view?

blanch152 · 13-02-2025 06:43PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123168235#Comment_123168235

Again, are you saying that Hamas are the legitimate defenders of Palestinian civilians?

I had thought, forgive me if I am wrong, that everyone around here was a supporter of Palestine, but deplored Hamas. Now, if legal rights are being rewritten to put Hamas as the legitimate army of Palestinian civilians, that mask has slipped.

Fuascailteoir · 13-02-2025 06:46PM

They not only have a right to self defence but also have a legitimate cause to forcibly assert their right to self determination. General Assembly resolution A/RES/38/17 (22/11/1983) "Reaffirms the legitimacy of the struggle of peoples for their independence, territorial integrity, national unity and liberation from colonial domination, apartheid and foreign occupation by all available means, including armed struggle"

Suckler · 13-02-2025 06:48PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123168253#Comment_123168253

Again, you are saying…

Again you are misrepresenting what I/others have said.

I had thought, forgive me if I am wrong, that everyone around here was a supporter of Palestine, but deplored Hamas. Now, if legal rights are being rewritten to put Hamas as the legitimate army of Palestinian civilians, that mask has slipped.

And there's the other fall back position when flapping "The Mask has slipped" i.e. Those who 'supported' (let's accept that for what it is on a surface level) Palestinians; are nothing but Hamas supporters using civilian suffering due to antisemitism.

to put Hamas as the legitimate army of Palestinian civilians

You've made this up to scramble from the simplistic, narrow minded viewpoint you've assumed.

dmcdona · 13-02-2025 06:54PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123168242#Comment_123168242

You haven't condemned Israel either.

Using your analogy of the wife-beater seems to confirm that whilst you will not "congratulate" a wife beater for stopping, you will be silent and let another wife- beater continue on unabated. If that is the case, the hypocrisy is astonishing.

By the way, I didn't "congratulate" Hamas at all - I'm grateful, for the sake of Gazan civilians that Hamas will continue honouring the ceasefire. Just clearing up your mistaken analysis of what I actually posted.

Israel/Palestine Thread

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