Irish Property Market chat II - *read mod note post #1 before posting*

Most of the private sector jobs are in Dublin, so although only about 30% of the population live there, the percentage of career focused professionals that are (or would like to be) Dublin based is higher than 30% of the workforce.

But even with your 45k example, there is something amiss when a person paying 40% income tax is no better off than someone on the dole who is living in the same apartment complex as them.

The person on the dole also has greater security of tenure, doesn't need to worry about pension contributions (unlike the 45k full time worker), or medical appt costs and most importantly, has 40 hours a week extra free time vs the 45k full time worker.

There is no doubt about it that the middle earners, in Dublin especially, are very much screwed over.

People use pay day loans and have credit card debts, doesn't make sound financial sense so pointing out they use them would not be proof it works. This applies to a reverse mortgages/equity release , they are terrible financial products and only the desperate really use them.

I am specifically asking you to work out the calculations to see how this would work. You are saying people should do this just to stay in their homes so we are talking long term calculations of about 20 years.

Income tax is on income is not a surprise. That it discourages work is an interesting take and I will admit I refused overtime/additional work due to tax. The thing is that meant they hired somebody else thus creating employment

Your take on wealth is very skewed. Some of what you said is ways some people gain their wealth but tax loopholes is really stretching it and part of another view. Others gain their wealth by using their taxed income to invest or buy things. Tou want to punish people for investing in their future while the governments around the world encourage investment for the future. An OAP living in the house they raised their family in did none of the things you said gives people wealth and you want to tax them.

You are talking about a form of communism which I doubt there is much support for not because the wealthy are stopping it but because the majority don't want it. There is also the constitution here that prevents it. Overall you appear to have a very naive and angry view of economic and tax with little understanding of reality and consequences but certainly pushing a narrative that would suit you.

What countries have a wealth tax like you are suggesting?

The Irish people did not like the water charges and the government caved. The people have spoken. You also have to remember PRSI was increased to pay for water and the representative fed-up by not knowing this when in Brussels. That is actually how water rates attempts came in.

I completely agree that we have masses of under occupied properties and have always suggested down sizing incentives but a very unpopular idea. Dublin in particular has masses of housing for families occupied by single residents. There should be a scheme to downsize within the area. Convert some of the properties for multiple OAPs and then get them to sell their homes to families. Won't happen unfortunately and it is not the government at fault.

What countries have a wealth tax like you are suggesting

France, Spain, Switzerland and Norway all have wealth taxes.

Many more have property only wealth taxes (not like our piddly LPT) and so do some US states.

Its far from communism - it's a way to ensure more efficient use of resources in the market.

But that is not the point you made (I’d also say water charges were a failure by that government to hold their ground more than anything else).

What exactly should home owners have to pay for?

The tax being proposed was a tax on those owning property would be taxed to match up people on about 40k without a property to be matched up with somebody who owns a house. It was to apply to all including OAPs homes. There was also the suggest it would replace income tax.

If you look up the countries you said already have such tax policies you would see all the exemptions and are quite low taxes. It would not fit the definition for the tax as suggested.

LPT was never a wealth tax and truly should have been a fee the resident should pay not the landowner. It is specifically to provide local amenities in an area.

The tax as suggested was certainly communism along with a suggestion of kicking the elderly out of their homes via taxation.

Not sure what what point I made that you claim that I am changing? Water charges should only have come in with a reduction on PRSI as it was meant to pay for water.

LPT is for local amenities people pay for other services by use. General taxation pays for all else. So I don't see what additional tax property owners should pay. If a property is rented the government get a lot of tax for it so I don't see why there should be more tax on it either. Derelict sites should incur some costs after a certain amount of time.

I was responding to

Then you engaged with my response. So you were responding to the initial suggestion too. If you were not aware of this it just shows you didn't pay attention to the context and just wanted to make up your own debate. You also didn't notice Spain's wealth tax includes art which you think is a laughable asset class.

Gary there is doing the same as you by arguing about different things than those being discussed

There is me thinking running away and not addressing questions/challenges put to a view to come back with pot shots was petty and immature.

Sorry bad cut and paste. Couldn't be bothered going back again. Yes somebody did but it was 50k my bad

"Couldn't be bothered" yeah right mate jog on 😂😂🤣

That post does not come close to what you said it does - nowhere is there a suggestion of punitively taxing property owners to get equality of outcome with non property owners on similar salary. You made that part up.

What is there to add up for equity release? You forfeit your inheritance to gain equity now. That's the tradeoff. It always works out for the OAP, it's the children who lose out on an inheritance, but given age profiles of children nowadays most would have a house by the time their inheritance comes through.

Indeed most vacant homes (not above shop units) are 2nd homes as a result of inheritance, and they don't need lived in but people won't just sell, or they drag their heels.

I see our new minister for housing is off to China on his st patricks day junket.

Any chance he'll bring back a few builders with him when he returns? Surely quite a few labourers out of work in China if stories of ghost cities are to be believed

"Would love to shift the tax code away from income to land."

"We need to seriously increase taxes on land to stop folk sitting on land, and take into account the privileges having a house in Dublin gives you, even a mortgaged one."

"At the end of the day, wealth is wealth. And an expensive house in Dublin city is wealth, whether you are a doctor, tech bro, or an OAP. All 3 should be taxed equally on their wealth."

Yeah never said

I am saying taking out equity is a finite amount of money that would not last an OAP to deal with increasing expenses beyond their income level. You need to explain how such money would last instead of claiming it just works