Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

darkened_scrum · 10-02-2025 08:27AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123153746#Comment_123153746

I thought we were talking about Nash tbh.

Brendan Bendar · 10-02-2025 09:38AM

On general performance I was not too impressed with Ireland .

Let Scotland into the game when down a player, conceded a lot of penalties, around 5 trips to the Scottish 'line' and

couldn't get the ball down.

Wouldn't do against a team like France I would suggest.

Good win…….but room to be more clinical in my opinion.

Former Former Former · 10-02-2025 11:01AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123153339#Comment_123153339

I wouldn't be at all surprised to see Henshaw/Ringrose starting against Wales. If Osborne is involved, it's more likely to be at 15 or 23.

I'd like to see Nash get another run, even with Hansen switching to the left and give Lowe a rest, he had a comically large icepack strapped to his thigh yesterday.

Up front, I presume Joe McCarthy will come back in to the 23, just a question whether it's Baird or POM who drops out. We shouldn't need POM's skillset to beat Wales so stick with Baird IMO.

As for LH, my guess is that Porter will start and Tom O'Toole will bench. If Porter is starting (presumably with Sheehan), then we have scope to give Clarkson a start.

Wholesale changes to the 23 are unlikely. Someone like Ahern or even Izuchukwu breaking in would be a surprise to me.

BoardsMember · 10-02-2025 11:11AM

We're not going to be giving players a "taste of test rugby" in the coming games. We'll be going full strength 15 and bench for every game. Anything else would be madness when trying to with Grand Slam.

Tweaking around the edges is the only change we might see, with McCarthy back available there are tough calls to be made about numebrs 6 and 20, likely one of Conan, POM or Baird miss out on the 23. If Hansen is back, I can't see Nash make the 23.

Personally, I'd prefer to see Healy not on the bench, and I'd prefer to see Osborne at 23, rather than the centre that doesn't start from Ringrose, Aki, Henshaw. I'd also gove POM a rest given his Wales issues in the past!

P.Walnuts · 10-02-2025 11:29AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123153843#Comment_123153843

Scotland are a decent team, there is going to be periods when they have the ball and create chances, we are not 2015 New Zealand.

In fact it's more impressive that despite Scotlands good spell, we responded and put the game to bed.

Former Former Former · 10-02-2025 11:51AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123153843#Comment_123153843

Wouldn't do against a team like France I would suggest.

If both Ireland and France play on 8th March like they did this weekend, the Grand Slam is very much on.

darkened_scrum · 10-02-2025 12:19PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123153843#Comment_123153843

There's always room to improve. This genre of post is appearing after most games this season for Leinster and Ireland, we've just won away against a good side, are people incapable of enjoying what this team are doing at the moment? Find these views bizarre, I have to say.

sydthebeat · 10-02-2025 01:20PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123154421#Comment_123154421

some people just cannot find enjoyment in life. Social media unfortunately just gives them a voice.

ShineyShiney · 10-02-2025 03:06PM

England A: Boyle, Herring, Clarkson, izzy, DMurray, Prendergast, Timoney, Mcnabbey, Murphy, Frawley, Bolton, Forde, Postlewait, Nash, Osbourne. Bench: Milne, McCarty, Aungier, Aherne, Coombes, Henderson, Cooney, jimmyo.

Wales: Healy, Sheehan, Bealham, Beirne, McCarty, Conan, Jdv, Doris, JGP, Prendergast, Lowe, Aki, Ringrose, Hansen, Keenan. Bench: Porter, Kelliher, Furlong, Baird, Pom, Crowley,Murray, Henshaw.

Must love hardship · 10-02-2025 03:26PM

I agree, with Ireland playing Wales and the day after Ireland A playing England A. There wont be a a lot of changes for ireland v wales. most likely a bit of rotation.

Otherwise some of the team could have 4 weeks off before the france game and could come in France under cooked.

eagle eye · 10-02-2025 03:52PM

This giving players a run in the Six Nations is a bad suggestion. It's the biggest tournament on the calendar, you play your best all through it. We have a summer tour and emerging tours to give people a go.

Quin_Dub · 10-02-2025 04:27PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123155381#Comment_123155381

Yes and no.

Definitely not advocating for wholesale changes , but Players need to get exposure to a competitive environment surrounded by 1st teamers.

For example , I'd have Jack Boyle on the bench for the Wales game and get him 20/25 minutes , likewise Izuchukwu.

All in, we have at most 30 games left before the next World Cup and ideally the majority of the squad needs to have 20+ caps each under their belt so for the positions where the current 1st/2nd choice squad member is not going to make it , we need to be getting games into their prospective replacements now. And those games need to be as part of the main squad , not run outs with fringe players.

Giving them games on a nothing Summer tour in a Lions year is of very very limited value.

Former Former Former · 10-02-2025 04:35PM

Keep forgetting about the A game.

If England send out a decent side for it, we might learn more from Boyle starting that one than giving him a cameo from the bench against a (presumably) beaten Wales side the day before.

Podge_irl · 10-02-2025 04:36PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123155600#Comment_123155600

Yeah, it's unfortunate timing in some respects. With England's squad depth though they do have the potential to put out a very strong side, just depends how seriously they take it.

eagle eye · 10-02-2025 04:55PM

positions where the current 1st/2nd choice squad member is not going to make it ,

What does that mean?

awec · 10-02-2025 05:06PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123155701#Comment_123155701

Positions where there's a good chance the incumbent player will have retired before the next World Cup.

letsbefair · 10-02-2025 05:10PM

Healy can hold a scrum on both side and plat hooker if needed. One reason for his longevity.

The coaches will go full strength for all matches. Tours and friendlies are time enough to experiment. The prize money is important also. A half cocked team could blow it in Cardiff, can't see us take that chance.

eagle eye · 10-02-2025 05:32PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123155743#Comment_123155743

You cannot predict when a player will retire. Lots of people wanted POM removed from the bench and then he starts against Scotland and plays really well. So what do you do with him now? Dump him to play some guy that mightn't make it.

There's no guarantee that Boyle or Izuchukwu will be good enough.

Boyle isn't starting or even no.2 for Leinster. Why on earth would you be bringing him in?

I presume it's Jack Boyle you are talking about and not Paul?

Izuchukwu got an opportunity in the AI:s and didn't impress, he was just okay. He's behind Beirne, Ryan, McCarthy and possibly Baird. The only one of them that's not in his twenties is Beirne and he hasn't shown any signs of slowing down.

Podge_irl · 10-02-2025 05:35PM

Izuchukwu is not going to be looked at for the second row internationally I would suspect, so he's not really behind Ryan or McCarthy at all.

You can't predict when a player will retire but we can say with certainty that POM and Healy for example won't make the next world cup. I don't give much shrift to the idea that you need to plan for the world cup 2.5 years out, but I also don't think either Healy or POM are playing that well anymore anyway. So what difference does it make. Yes, POM had some great moments against Scotland, but he also had some really bad errors and was anonymous for big portions. I don't think it's worth carrying that.

Podge_irl · 10-02-2025 05:36PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123155761#Comment_123155761

Healy can hold a scrum on both side and plat hooker if needed. One reason for his longevity.

I'd be exceptionally worried if he had to play more than about 20 mins though. It's definitely the biggest potential issue in the squad.

ionadnapóca · 10-02-2025 05:50PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123155104#Comment_123155104

Ranking the changes in order of importance from a French match POV and beyond.

Wales - Start BOYLE.
Wales - Start Furlong (HOPEFULLY)
Wales - Start Joe McCarthy (Hopefully)
Wales - 21. Ben Murphy
Wales - Start Jamie Osborne (Even at FB)
Wales - Rest Beirne
Wales - 17. Porter
Eng A - Start Fintan Gunne
Wales - Start Clarkson
Wales - Start Crowley
Wales - 19. Tom Ahern
Wales - Start Sheehan
Eng A - Start Aungier or Jager

Podge_irl · 10-02-2025 05:52PM

Ben Murphy? Murray is playing very well, can't see the logic there at all.

Jump_In_Jack · 10-02-2025 06:08PM

I'd agree that we should go all out full strength for Wales.
Two weeks to prepare, and a rest week after, there's no excuse to rest anyone.
Beat them by a cricket score if possible.
Look at what New Zealand did to Italy in the last World Cup for inspiration, Ireland should have that mindset now for Wales.

I'd go with:
Porter, Sheehan, Bealham,
Beirne, Ryan,
Conan, Doris, Van der Flier,
Gibson-Park, Prendergast,
Lowe, Henshaw, Ringrose, Nash,
Keenan.
Bench: Kelleher, Healy, Clarkson, Baird, O'Mahony, Murray, Crowley, Aki.

Any of Hansen, Furlong, or Joe McCarthy could start or bench if fit.
If the selectors want to go with some youth they could try one or more of the following: Osborne at 23, Izuchukwu at 19, and/or Boyle at 17 perhaps.

ionadnapóca · 10-02-2025 06:19PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123155932#Comment_123155932

Murray can Start v Scarlets. I know he will be needed to bench v France. Hopefully only to close out the final 8 or so mins.

Funnily enough I also thinks he's playing well yet at the same time I can see that he has slowed down considerably. He's nearly 36!

Murphy offers something no other Irish scrum half (Excl JGP) can come close to right now. Speed.

Ireland need speed.

awec · 10-02-2025 06:53PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123155845#Comment_123155845

You cannot predict when a player will retire. Lots of people wanted POM removed from the bench and then he starts against Scotland and plays really well. So what do you do with him now? Dump him to play some guy that mightn't make it.

You can fairly easily predict what players are at risk of retirement by doing something as simple as looking at their age.

Peter O'Mahony will not be playing in the next World Cup. Cian Healy will not be playing in the next World Cup. At this stage, it is a major doubt that either of these lads offer more than younger alternatives offer to warrant their continued selection.

In fact, with Healy we really are gambling that Porter will be able to play the majority of the game. Healy is there cause of his scrummaging, but his open field play is an obvious weakness at this point. If Porter had to go off early in a game it would be a serious concern.

There's no guarantee that Boyle or Izuchukwu will be good enough.

Ok? And? There is only one way to find out if they are good enough or not. In Boyle's case especially he has played games for Leinster that will be much harder than the game Ireland will play against Wales.

Boyle isn't starting or even no.2 for Leinster. Why on earth would you be bringing him in?

Bizarre question.

I would bring Boyle in because he's the next best loosehead available to Ireland, who has shown himself more than capable at the highest levels of the club game, and the next natural step for him is exposure to test rugby.

Luckily for Boyle, the only guy keeping him out of the team is 37 years old.

I presume it's Jack Boyle you are talking about and not Paul?

Why would anyone be talking about Paul Boyle?

Izuchukwu got an opportunity in the AI:s and didn't impress, he was just okay. He's behind Beirne, Ryan, McCarthy and possibly Baird. The only one of them that's not in his twenties is Beirne and he hasn't shown any signs of slowing down.

Izuchukwu has never and will never be considered in the second row for Ireland, so Ryan and McCarthy are immaterial.

But this is really beside the point, whether it's Izuchukwu or Baird or someone else, the only thing we know for certain is that the answer is not POM.

sprucemoose · 10-02-2025 06:59PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123148448#Comment_123148448

o gara peaked in 2006 only if you stopped watching rugby before new years day 2007

eagle eye · 10-02-2025 07:20PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123156187#Comment_123156187

I live your statement of facts.

I'll give you a short reply, Duayne Vermeulen started in the World Cup final for South Africa at 37 years of age.

If you were a South African rugby guy four years ago you'd be saying Vermeulen should be gone.

awec · 10-02-2025 07:28PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123156277#Comment_123156277

And what?

Are you saying that because DV played for the Springboks at 37 that POM or Healy will play for Ireland in 2027? That's not really how it works…

I don't think you really get the point being made here. People aren't ditching POM or Healy solely because of their age, age is just one of the factors. If either of them was tearing it up for Ireland it would be a totally different conversation, but neither of them are, they are both just grand and there is nothing to suggest that the younger alternatives are not just as good or even better.

Quin_Dub · 10-02-2025 07:39PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123156277#Comment_123156277

And?

POM has already stated that the 1 year contract he signed over the summer will be his last in this country.

The IRFU won't give him another one , so he WILL NOT be playing at the next world cup , even if he took a pay day overseas for another year or two.

Cian Healy and Conor Murray also won't go to the World Cup in 2027.

I'd also be pretty confident that Ian Henderson won't be there and unless his injury profile improves dramatically , Tadgh Furlong probably won't make it either. Bundi Aki is another on the "Probably won't make it" list.

And those are just the guys that are simply not physically going to be capable of making it , which is before we get to the guys that just won't be playing well enough by then regardless of age.

So no matter what way you look at it , we need to start giving the better "prospects" game time now to see if they are up to it or not and if they are, to get them bedded into the systems.

Waiting until the very last moment to discover that 6 or 8 guys are no longer good enough and the next best only have a handful of caps against Tier 2/3 teams is not going to get us past a World Cup QF for the first time.

How many games did South Africa lose in 2021 and 2022 they as rebuilt for the 2023 WC??

I'd happily lose a 3rd of those remaining ~30 games if it sets us up to make the break-through at the World Cup.

AbusesToilets · 10-02-2025 07:39PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123155986#Comment_123155986

I think we can comfortably mix up the team without it weakening them. By playing alternatives, we have a chance to get lads up to speed who might be better options for France. Boyle and Osborne in particular would at the top of the list.

Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

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