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Israel/Palestine Thread

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,410 ✭✭✭yagan


    How do you know people didn't expire because of starvation?

    Lots of people in Liverpool refused to believe there was starvation in Ireland because their docks and warehouses were full of food from Ireland. And then the starving started arriving as refugees.

    Unless you've been on the ground in Gaza all you have is opinion.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,052 ✭✭✭SafeSurfer


    The organisation you quoted to back up your claims, you now accuse of lying.

    Some people seem to be not concerned about hungry people, but only hungry Israelis. Not concerned about war crimes, but only war crimes perpetrated against Israelis. Even ignoring war crimes carried out against Israelis if those war crines were committed by the Israeli army and air force.

    Why the duplicity?

    Multo autem ad rem magis pertinet quallis tibi vide aris quam allis



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,544 ✭✭✭Yeah_Right


    No need to be so aggressive. My point was simply that being a woman doesn't automatically make a person a defenseless, helpless victim.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,195 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    What is abhorrent about commenting that Hamas have used female combatants as suicide bombers and recruit child soldiers?

    The only aspect I can think of is that we all believe that behaviour by Hamas is abhorrent. Do you agree?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,052 ✭✭✭SafeSurfer


    And Israel has ordered the killing of female combatants to prevent them from being taken prisoner. Is killing one’s own female soldiers any less abhorrent than allowing one’s female soldiers to kill themselves?

    Multo autem ad rem magis pertinet quallis tibi vide aris quam allis



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,544 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    I'm spouting nothing. I'm merely pointing out Haaretz talking points - Israel's oldest newspaper.

    IDF soldiers have been released - as combatants, they are considered prisoners of war.

    As for War Crimes, you are aware that two senior Israelis, including the Prime Minster, currently have ICC arrest warrants out for them for, well, War Crimes.

    Do you condemn Israeli war crimes?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,052 ✭✭✭SafeSurfer


    Deflect, deflect because you are unable to criticise the actions of Israel. Unsurprising.

    Multo autem ad rem magis pertinet quallis tibi vide aris quam allis



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 15,460 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose


    So, not a lie then. Good to know you don't agree with the narrative posted earlier.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,195 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    This thread is full of criticism of the actions of Israel. Strangely, condemnation of Hamas is largely absent.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,802 ✭✭✭Sudden Valley


    Loads of posts have critised hamas. They just don't all buy into the narrative that everyone Israel kills, especially women or kids are hamas operatives or should be blamed on hamas.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,052 ✭✭✭SafeSurfer


    The thread?


    Do you think Israeli killing its own female combatants and civilians is abhorrent?

    Not “the thread”, do you?

    Multo autem ad rem magis pertinet quallis tibi vide aris quam allis



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,544 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    Anyone watching events in Gaza are well aware that not all is getting to those who need it. I've mentioned that myself in previous posts.

    Of course, it is Israel's legal obligation to make sure it does.

    No surprise that they don't though. More evidence of crimes against humanity for the ICJ to consider.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,544 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    Hamas have been condemned from day one - I'm sure you are well aware of that.

    And yes, it is largely criticism of Israel that abounds simply because their actions warrant that criticism. After all, not only has Israel been murdering Palestinian civilians for the last 15 months, they've even murdered their own citizens - including their own surrendering hostages.

    Not only that, Israel has murdered medics and journalist. They've razed Gaza to the ground. They've raped prisoners of war. They've committed genocide and war crimes.

    I have utterly condemned Hamas many many times as have many others.

    Do you condemn Israel?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,544 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    For all those welcoming the release of the Israeli hostages, buckle up. Alleged war criminal #1 values his political career way more than human life. As do other War Criminals of course.


    Haaretz:

    Israeli sources told Haaretz they believe PM Netanyahu intends to sabotage the hostage release deal, saying that he's sending a negotiating team for talks in Qatar "without a mandate and without the ability to do anything." One source said that the images of hostages being freed have significantly hurt Netanyahu in the polls, and another added that "Netanyahu knows he doesn't have a government if he proceeds with the deal."



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,544 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    Actually, it turns out that alleged War Criminal #1 is not just focused on his political career, he seems to love life's little luxuries just as much.

    The released hostages and those still in captivity, plus their families, must be ripping….


    "If the Israeli public doesn't exert heavy pressure on the government to advance to the second phase of the deal and ensure the release of the 76 hostages remaining in the Gaza Strip (more than half of whom are presumed dead), they will continue to suffer under similar, and perhaps even harsher, conditions… The need is even more urgent in light of Benjamin Netanyahu's actions. The prime minister, who extended his stay at a luxury Washington hotel (with a large and extravagant entourage) through Saturday evening, invested considerable effort in the American capital to foil the transition to the next stage of the deal

    " – Amos Harel



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,478 ✭✭✭Miniegg


    Sure

    I really hate when scumbags mug innocent people. Do you agree?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,154 ✭✭✭✭A Dub in Glasgo




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,154 ✭✭✭✭A Dub in Glasgo




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,478 ✭✭✭Miniegg


    You may not know it, but there is a narrative that there are no innocents in palestine. Politicians at the highest ecehlons of Israeli government have said it - whether you are aware of that or not, you are parroting the same line. Another poster before you said, similar to you, that we shouldn't consider children innocent either because "child soldiers". Would you agree with this?

    To flip tjings - Israel has adults who serve in the military, they actually have conscription. Would you be comfortable saying that the civilian women Hamas ambushed and murdered on October 7th weren't automatically innocent victims?

    Post edited by Miniegg on


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,531 ✭✭✭Billy Mays


    Really?

    I've been following this thread since day one and bar a couple of individuals condemnation of Hamas has been universal.

    Get the boat with your "largely absent" nonsense



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,478 ✭✭✭Miniegg


    I literally haven't seen one post supporting Hamas, open to be proven wrong though.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,531 ✭✭✭Billy Mays


    There were a couple of posters in the early days of this thread who condoned the events of October 7th. It wasn't long before they copped a ban.

    Blanch and co are desperate to portray that condemnation of Israel's actions in the aftermath of October 7th = support of Hamas



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,544 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    There were a couple of distasteful posts supporting Hamas in the very early days (I think an even earlier thread than this one) and they were roundly condemned.

    Those criticizing Israel, and not just here in this thread, have constantly been accused of supporting Hamas - including Governments and others. In addition, the accusations of anti-Semitism was also thrown around with abandon. So much so, it has unfortunately lost any real meaning, especially for those expressing true anti-Semitic sentiments. Event "pogrom" was used in relation to football violence.

    These all seem to very much a case of "The Boy who cried 'Wolf'".



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,544 ✭✭✭Yeah_Right


    I'm not actually "parroting" that same line. In another post I said the percentage of women killed in Gaza who were combatants was probably a very small minority. Same with the men.

    Your question around Israeli adults, conscription, being former military and does make them legitimate targets is an interesting one. A couple of posters on here tried to justify Hamas' actions on October 7th using that logic.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,905 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    started a war?

    would this be the war that has been going on since 1948 when the state of israel decided to cleanse the indigenous people from their land so that it could be given to foreign settlers from europe, america and other countries?

    the bs about the war starting on october 7th is never going to work, so why you have tried that tactic on a couple of occasions now i do not know.

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,478 ✭✭✭Miniegg


    I'll take your word for it- and when you read those posts, did you agree with them, or think it was an awful comment to make?

    Because that's what your post said in reverse....per below, replying to a post mentioning this war has been the most deadly for women in the last 20 yrs....

    People always go on about women and children being innocent victims. I understand children being included but why does everyone assume adult women are innocent victims? Seems very misogynistic. 

    And if those posters you speak about were "justifying Hamas actions", what do you think you're post looks like youre doing?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,844 ✭✭✭Wolf359f


    People like that won't state an age, the same way they can state it's not a genocide because only 40k are dead, but cannot provide a figure or percentage when they would class it a genocide.

    If you push people on stating an age…. you're gonna end up with people defending dead babies because they were potential Hamas soldiers. The depths people to go justify or just ignore Israel's action is disgusting.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,544 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    Someone asked what age is considered to be a "child soldier".

    According to the IDF, it seems that the age of a child terrorist starts at conception:


    RTE:

    The Palestinian health ministry has said that Israeli forces in the occupied West Bank shot dead three people, including a woman who was eight months pregnant, while the military said it had "targeted terrorists" in a raid.

    "Medical teams were unable to save the baby's life due to the (Israeli) occupation preventing the transfer of the injured to the hospital," it added.

    Murad Alyan, a member of the popular committee in the Nur Shams camp, told AFP that the couple was "trying to leave the camp before the occupation forces advanced into it. They were shot while they were inside their car."

    The Palestinian foreign ministry condemned what it described as "a crime of execution committed by the occupation forces", accusing Israeli forces of "deliberately targeting defenceless civilians".




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,052 ✭✭✭SafeSurfer


    The sickening thing is that Irish “journalists” like David Quinn, advocates of protecting the life of the unborn, right to life etc, will support this.

    Inline Influencers must legally disclose if they have received payments. Yet journalists, who receive funding directly from states or state aligned institutions, can promote an agenda without any revelations about who is funding their “opinion”. It’s the same with that other “pro life for everyone but Palestinians” John Mc Guirk of Gript. Paid for directly by the state of Israel.

    Multo autem ad rem magis pertinet quallis tibi vide aris quam allis



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