Hamas strike on Israel - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

About 60 secs on Wikipedia and it was obvious @Grayson comment was nonsense.

Facts are optional it seems

A bit more detail from Haaretz on Sde Teiman and the IDF forces stationed there (and their war crimes of course). They even attacked Israeli military police and challenged them at gunpoint.

"The most moral army in the world"

The Sde Teiman detention center was established immediately after the outbreak of the war in Gaza to hold Hamas terrorists, including those who took part in the atrocities of October 7, until they could be moved to other Israeli prisons.

It has been at the center of several concerning allegations of illegal detention conditions and abuse of prisoners by Israeli soldiers. Last July, Military Police raided Sde Teiman following suspicions of abuse by 11 reservists with Force 100, the unit that guards Palestinian detainees at the base. The soldiers are suspected of inserting an iron rod into the anus of a detained Hamas operative, causing serious injury.

Israeli soldiers attacked military police investigators when they came to arrest their colleagues, and soldiers seized the suspects from investigators at gunpoint and barricaded themselves with the suspects in another building at the base.

In June of last year, the IDF opened investigations into the deaths of 36 prisoners at the center.

Well, the ICJ are satisfied that SA has a plausible case for Israeli Genocide.

What's your view on the Israeli hostages? Any pictures I've seen appear to show them safe, happy and well fed. Happy enough to pose with IDF soldiers. So I guess they must have been very well treated - just like the Gazans you refer to.

No, I have never preferred the ethnic cleansing of anyone..making that bit up.

Your post is a bit of a joke. Cant take you seriously.

Obligation, hypocrisy…what a joke! The Palestinians are Israel's responsibility (for now anyway).

Think it's been more common for right wing in Israel to say that Jordan or Egypt must step up and take all the unwanted Arab baggage off their hands.

I suppose expanding the list of possible destinations to every country in Europe Israel has a bone to pick with is good "trolling" by their politicians (one skill they have). The home crowd will love it of course (in between baying for war, and more buckets of blood perhaps?).

Maybe Hamas (or Iran, their proxy puppeteers) should pay considering they started the war - like Russia.

"Solution"

It’s certainly not the setting for a future peace deal- in fact it’s saying the opposite- Israel has no interest in peace.
You can’t commence “negotiation” with a stance so far removed from any common ground - there’s no common ground in an ass’s roar of this position.
So outcomes are limited which means:

1. Gaza will remain a bomb site
2. Some Palestinians will move because they’re young, have a young family and will wish for a better life - where to, that remains to be seen
3. Those that remain will live desperate lives

Israel may over time, start clearing sections in preparation for building - but that will take decades or at least many years- a generation - bombs and toxic waste disposal don’t disappear by themselves.

A “temporary” move of Palestinians for works to commence could only be achieved if there was trust- there is no trust.
And anyway, even if there was, it would likely break down in the intervening years.

And it’s clear, if America helps, then America owns and manages Gaza- I can’t see that being any different if any other country stepped in to be honest - there would have to be some form of “payback” - and from purely safety and logistical reasons, Palestinians just couldn’t remain on these lands as such dangerous works are carried out- that’s just insanity to think they could.

With the best will in the world, I don’t see any type of soliton here. Trump decided Palestinians are the blocker to his otherwise utopian dream so he simply discarded them - this isn’t The Apprentice.

BUT- I think there are elements of his idea that could form a soliton - a destination such as he’s envisaging could bring jobs, security etc - but it needs to be built with the Palestinians at the forefront - Israel could also benefit - tourism, better overall stability. And indeed, the country countries supporting this development could well profit too which needs to be called out.

Is any of the above alternative option realistic? In my view we’re light years from it even being considered

Good points. I think a political solution, agreeable to all, has to be the first step.

If there is no political solution, whoever goes into Gaza to clean up, rebuild etc. will be walking on eggshells.

The poster claimed that it is a foregone conclusion that the ICC or ICJ will find them guilty. That statement suggests a predetermined outcome. I responded that it is not a foregone conclusion because, as of today, they are legally innocent. They will receive a fair trial, and a not guilty verdict remains a possibility. That seems like a reasonable position, don't you think?

With respect to their innocence, I'd like to start off by focusing in on the definition of the word "genocide". Genocide requires intent to destroy a group in whole or in part based on identity. Do you agree with that? Israel has officially stated that its military actions target Hamas, not the Palestinian people. Additionally, the IDF employed humane practices that contradict claims of genocidal intent, such as issuing Arabic-language warnings and leaflet drops to alert Gazans before airstrikes on terrorist infrastructure and military targets. Furthermore, Israel has facilitated the entry of over 1.3 million tons of humanitarian aid into Gaza over the last 15 months, demonstrating efforts to mitigate civilian suffering. I let you respond to this before I move on to my next point.

It is quite strange that there are people who are unable to distinguish between Hamas and the Palestinian people as being the target of Israeli activity, instead claiming that the two are the same and therefore genocide, while on the other hand, will go to extraordinary lengths to claim the tiniest distinction that makes them anti-zionist rather than anti-semetic.

Curious.

Nobody here is up in front of the ICC or the ICJ though. However Israel is and there's plenty of quotes from the Israeli cabinet claiming there's no Innocent in Gaza or everyone is Hamas.

It's talk like that, that when presented with the figure of 70% dead being women and children (similar to the population demographics) they can't go claim they were not targeting just Hamas. If you just drop a random bomb in Gaza, statistically you would kill 70% women and children. Doesn't sound like targeting just Hamas to me and feeds into a policy of extermination.

If Israel dropped a nuke on Gaza, or click fingers like Thanos, 70% of the victims would be women and children. That stastic is very hard to defend.

In fairness I don’t think many were fooled by Israel after it became apparent in the first few weeks of their tactics - if Hamas are say 3% or 8% or whatever of the population, in the way Israel approached this attack, they essentially allowed for x citizens to be killed for every one Hamas fighter .
Strategic targets were one feature of the early response but it just became a street by street battle and they left all pretence of a targeted attack behind.
However it must also be said, Hamas have their own peoples blood on their hands too - Israel were bad, but Hamas could have ended this before it went so far - handing back hostages, negotiating a truce - yes lives would still have been lost - but not as many, nor the near total destruction of Gaza

Hamas are notorious for recruiting child soldiers.

Are you assuming that Hamas soldiers are all men?

Is there a court ruling that dropping of leaflets (and other actions taken by Israel) does not constitute compliance with international law? If not, that is just your opinion.