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Donald Trump the Megathread part II - mod warnings in OP, Updated 18/03/25

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Comments

  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 41,659 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    It's not bizarre, it's par for the course. A MAGA poster tried to both sides WW2 on here recently. This is always where MAGA wanted to go: Profits for the elite and the establishment while American voters get to watch atrocities on OANN and Fox News.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,216 ✭✭✭Economics101


    Yes while Harris might (or would) have won the popular vote, would she have won the Electoral College? Harder to prove. And the "moral victory" of a popular vote win alas counts for nothing at present.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,931 ✭✭✭ArthurDayne


    Absolutely agree. So much of his waffling is paraded as "isn't Trump so much fun" or gifted this narrative that it's all part of his deal-making prowess and genius in creating leverage — and any outraged reactions are discarded as little more than the melodramatic screeching of loony liberals. But his promotion of bully boy rhetoric against his less powerful neighbouring allies, and dangerous advocacy of literal ethnic cleansing of Gaza to build an American holiday resort, is thinly-veiled imperialism. Downplaying the danger of the type of politics that Trump engages in is reckless — because hey, maybe it is only 4 years undergoing the end-of-life crisis of an ageing egocentric tycoon — but he is laying down a precedent for others to follow that gaining power in the US is all about the active promotion of might being right.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,714 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    Trump's comments re: Gaza is literal disaster capitalism, which has been a tenet of the right wing for more than 20 years now. The same types of comments were spouted by GOP goons after hurricane Katrina levelled much of New Orleans in 2005. Plenty of greedy mitts rubbing and mouths salivating at the thought of using a devastated land for their own gain.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 30,575 CMod ✭✭✭✭johnny_ultimate


    Even if Trump's "plan" wasn't truly evil (which it absolutely is), it is wholly, almost farcically impractical.

    The entire history of the Palestinian people post the Nakba is that they won't cede their homeland. They've been living under truly inhumane conditions (imposed by the Israeli state) to protect and live in their territory. They're returning in their hundreds of thousands even after Gaza has been flattened by nearly 18 months of bombing. They're not suddenly going to go 'oh well, that's that' and make way for Trump Tower.

    Then you have opposition from virtually the entirety of the rest of the world. The international community has been severely lacking in their response to the humanitarian catastrophe in Gaza, but this goes far, far beyond what has been tolerated by even the more pro-Israel countries (USA and Israel themselves excepted). It could easily prompt regional or world war with some countries in the Middle East, not too mention terrorist attacks targeting US troops or civilians. The human cost of such an attempt would be staggering.

    And then, even if they did somehow succeed in building beachfront property there, what would that even look like? Unrecognised by the international community, almost certainly violent and unstable.

    The whole thing is a catastrophe of untold proportions waiting to happen. Which would usually mean it likely wouldn't happen, but when America is as broken as it currently is, that is no guarantee.



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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 41,659 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    The tactic of pretending that Trump meant something different that what he actually said or was taken out of context or whatever is a decade old. MAGA posters were saying the same thing when he did things like this:

    image.png

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,343 ✭✭✭Oscar_Madison
    #MEGA MAKE EUROPE GREAT AGAIN


    I don’t disagree with you at all - hence I’ve said Trumps plan is unworkable and will lead to more war - but wherever the solution lies it will involve the temporary displacement of the Palestinian people - and whoever controls the funding of the rebuild will control and heavily influence how they return and live there- I will await further suggestions from world leaders but I guarantee you we won’t see a solution any time soon



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,714 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    Nobody owns any thread, but you've been asked some direct, honest, questions which you've gone out of your way to avoid giving a clear answer to.

    Don't act all surprised when that gets interpreted as soft support for what Trump is doing and saying.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,343 ✭✭✭Oscar_Madison
    #MEGA MAKE EUROPE GREAT AGAIN


    I’m not going to be bullied into a response - I’ve clearly stated Trumps plan is unworkable - the two state solution is the only game in town and the world knows that. I’ve said nothing that suggests the support for Trumps “solution” - but I have highlighted also that there is no clear solution. Any country who wishes to fund the rebuild of Gaza will clearly want a “return” - in the meantime the Palestinian people will continue to suffer



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 41,659 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    It's only impractical if the US isn't willing to use deadly force. Given how it treats its own citizens, I expect full on genocide. It's been posited that the Allies wouldn't have declared war on Germany if it just stuck to the Holocaust instead of invading Poland first.

    America invaded Iraq for corporate interests. This was two decades ago. The idea that they're going to hesitate to displace or exterminate Palestinians is for the birds. The EU is a disjointed mess and Xi Jinping has his eyes on Taiwan. Unless I am mistaken, just over 10% of the EU - Ireland, Norway and Spain - recognize a Palestinian state. There will be no international support, sadly.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,234 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    People might have thought 'It can't be done' if you had suggested that Elon Musk could have a bunch of his interns storm into extremely secure government treasury facilities and install 3rd party software and hardware directly onto the servers without any legal recourse to do so….

    What can and can't be done now, is not related to what could and could not be done in WW2

    (remember again, that the US was not being attacked on their home front in WW2, the fighting was being done in the Pacific Africa and Europe, Trump will make out that the US is under attack domestically on home soil and the courts will agree that elections have to be postponed)

    Chomsky(2017) on the Republican party

    "Has there ever been an organisation in human history that is dedicated, with such commitment, to the destruction of organised human life on Earth?"



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 388 ✭✭StoutPost


    Europe would do well to stay out of this adventure. I don't expect it will come to pass. More likely a distraction from what his billionaire buddies are up to at home.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,411 ✭✭✭j62


    So focusing on the actual implementation of this insane plan

    Will it be

    A) IDF

    B) US military

    C) Coalition of Arab militaries

    D) Egypt


    who will drive the locals out of Gaza into the desert?

    Each one of those is a Pandora’s box



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 41,659 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Musk is simply doing what the executive and Congress are allowing. Legally, nothing amiss there which says much.

    The elections are locked via the constitution and nobody's changing that any time soon.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 41,659 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Stay out. How does it stay out when he's talking about attacking Denmark?

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 30,575 CMod ✭✭✭✭johnny_ultimate


    Except the US use of 'deadly force' and intervention post WWII has been a series of indisputable catastrophes. Vietnam, Korea, Iraq, Yemen, the countless coups and regime changes it has been behind… they've only left chaos and destruction in their wake. Israel has already been conducting a forceful ethnic cleansing for decades and it hasn't broken the will or spirit of the Palestinian people.

    There is zero chance of a peaceful, prosperous Gaza Strip under Trump's vision of American rule. America's own modern history has proven that beyond a shadow of a doubt.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 41,659 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Trump's last presidency was a catastrophe. People have short memories and Americans more so. Look at the disastrous withdrawal from Afghanistan that Trump arranged which is now only talked about as a cynical stick to beat Joe Biden with.

    It's not about peace or prosperity, it's about greed and imperialism. If this happens, the best Palestinians can hope for is asylum in the Middle East or Europe. A destabilised Europe suits the GOP and Putin perfectly.

    Might not happen of course but they have a friendly, imperialist collaborator right there ready to help and provide a beachhead.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,714 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    Simply saying it's "unworkable" doesn't illustrate whether you are in opposition to Trump and his machinations or whether you agree with them in part or in whole.

    This is why people on here are, at best, dubious about the honesty of your position.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,234 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Greg Palast has got the figures from the election authorities and he's a qualified forensic accountant. According to him, if you take even the most pro-trump interpretation of all the figures, Trump would have lost the electoral college and the popular vote
    https://www.gregpalast.com/trump-lost-vote-suppression-won/

    Its all water under the bridge now, nobodys gonna change the result now

    Chomsky(2017) on the Republican party

    "Has there ever been an organisation in human history that is dedicated, with such commitment, to the destruction of organised human life on Earth?"



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,343 ✭✭✭Oscar_Madison
    #MEGA MAKE EUROPE GREAT AGAIN


    Quite simply I don’t care what “people think” - I’ve had the same bullying behaviour in the election thread and I didn’t bow down to that either. I’ve stated that the 2 state solution is the only game in town - If people don’t understand that statement and its implications then it’s on them not me.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,586 ✭✭✭eightieschewbaccy


    K, the rest of us are likely to continue to discuss the fact that the officially stated US policy is ethnic cleansing of a region.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,492 ✭✭✭AyeGer


    I said this on boards and X a few months ago, when I seen the relentless destruction of Gaza, including hospitals and public buildings. I thought they are getting ready to clear out the Gaza Strip once and for all.

    I wasn’t so sure Israel allowed October 7 to happen but it starting to look like part of a grand plan.

    What next for the West Bank I wonder?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,234 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Whether they cancel the elections, or merely rig them or find some other way around them, democracy in America is under existential threat

    Chomsky(2017) on the Republican party

    "Has there ever been an organisation in human history that is dedicated, with such commitment, to the destruction of organised human life on Earth?"



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,780 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    Egypt and every other middle eastern country has come out against it.

    So that leaves the question of what happens if the Israelis/US attempt to force millions of Palestinians across the border into Egypt.

    Will the middle eastern countries fight? Or will they simply pivot away from the US, impost sanctions (especially OPEC), and switch to a Sino/Russian sphere of influence?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,399 ✭✭✭Wolf359f


    So it looks like the new 2 state solution is the US and Israel.

    I think somehow taking over Canada, Greenland, Gaza and the Panama Canal has to lower the price of eggs, right? We were told it was the economy.

    Who is Trump eyeing to be next on the list?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,880 ✭✭✭Brief_Lives




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,317 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    One theory doing the rounds today is that Trump's Gaza nonsense is designed to distract from his and Musk's dismantling of the US state.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,817 ✭✭✭✭banie01


    The current state of play in the US and in particular the near immediate widespread outbreak of leopards eating faces post Trump's inaugaration is, from a comparative political systems viewpoint, absolutely fascinating IMO.
    Trump's disavowal of Project2025 during the campaign, and his immediate implementation of their policies being a prime example.

    In parliamentary democracy it would, without an overwhelming parliamentary majority lead to a vote of no confidence and likely collapse of government.
    Even in a Presidential system such as France, it would lead to impassé and one would hope constructive political compromise.
    Yet in the US?
    The lies are shrugged off and executive orders abound.

    One could argue that this is what representative democracy is.
    You elect a Representative and they serve as they see fit, they vote their conscience rather than their constituency's and they voted for this man, this party to represent them.
    He is at best a known liar, at worst, far, far worse.
    And democracy has placed him in power…

    Yet the close election, the faith some misplace in a charlatan's campaign promises all conspired to place him in power.

    Is that power, its set 4 years a true reflection of democratic process and principles?
    In a representative democracy, is a set period of power without any recourse to either congress or the whims of the public being able to force an early election.
    A true reflection of a democratic mandate?

    Whilst some aspects of local & state government allow for actions such as recall, the rigidity of federal politics and electoral process is IMHO a serious impedement to the exercise of representative and responsive democracy on a national level in the US.
    The usual defence of mid-terms, 2yr House of Representative election cycle and the offset nature of Senate races doesn't really address the issues that the US is currently facing IMHO.

    An interesting addendum to the fixed nature of US federal election cycles and the current state of play there?
    Is, if/when the EU becomes more federal?
    What can be done to ensure that the EU parliament doesnt fall into a similar trap?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,982 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    All the Trump supporters that spent years in here screeching about isolationism.

    Two weeks in and Trump has suggested the US potentially use force or coercion to take over: Greenland, Panama, Canada and now Palestine



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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 41,659 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    I disagree. I think it's a corporate oligarchy rather than a democracy. It's run for corporate profits. I think that elections will take place but they'll change little.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



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