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Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 42,811 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    Its hard to know about tighthead. Neither Furlong nor Bealham has been ruled out yet. It'd be great if both were healthy.

    As regards second row/back row it's hard to know what will happen. I think everybody would like to see Conan start at 6 but it wouldn't surprise me to see Ryan and McCarthy back together and Beirne return to the back row. Then we have to wonder whose on the bench.

    I don't see any changes in the backs unless Hansen hasn't recovered.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,117 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    I did, bit much probably. It was a class match, the wait for Sat is miserable.



  • Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 36,402 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    And the wait for Sunday is even worse!

    Is TOT still suspended?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,567 ✭✭✭niallm77


    Yes his ban runs until this week so is not available for sunday



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,076 ✭✭✭crusd


    My two cents - Crowley is a really good 10. Just below elite level. Elite being in the conversation for top 5 in the position. I dont think he will be in the elite category though but could do a great job for us for the next 5 years or more. And for me he is in pole position to be our 10 at the next WC. Prendergast on the other hand has a lot of the raw materials to be eilte. Whether he ever develops into that elite level 10 or not is what is unknown, but with us only being 2.5 years out from the world cup, I think we need to see him develop this year. If at the end of this season we see that Prendergast is not developing at the rate we hope, Crowley becomes our number 1 10 for the world cup cycle. However if Prendergast starts to grow in the role he could usurp Crowley but we need to see that development this year. That's why I think its worth taking the shot this year in what with Farrell away is a kind of down year anyway. On balance of probability I think Prendergast will achieve that elite level but I think due to the deficiencies in his kicking and defence that he can address will take a little longer to get there and Crowley will be our starting 10 for the next world cup.

    We are certainly in a far stronger post Sexton place than we thought we would be 2 years ago



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,753 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    Of course they re watched it and took notes.

    I wade through the absolute mountain of guff in this forum for nuggets of genuine analysis like that.

    After all the biased, uninformed opinions about Prendergast and Crowley, surely we can appreciate some actual analysis?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,944 ✭✭✭Brief_Lives


    Thank you Mrs Prendergast.

    now go get Sam out of his jim-jams



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,082 ✭✭✭accensi0n


    Reading reports that the IRFU planned to have Bealham and Hansen get injured so they could get more Leinster players into the team. Crazy.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 27,322 ✭✭✭✭phog


    The 6Ns (probably the biggest international rugby competition in the small world of rugby) is not where you play a guy who might have a higher ceiling or more potential in the future. That's what the Autumn and Summer friendlies are for. I hope neither Sam nor Jack go on the Lions tour and both get time with Ireland during the Summer games.

    In saying that I think Sam will start again on Sunday but he needs to up his game if he wants to be first choice for Ireland.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 2,044 ✭✭✭Packrat


    Where are you reading these "reports"?

    Link to them or else it's more gaslighting BS.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,295 ✭✭✭✭Brendan Bendar


    Time to kick the tribalism to touch, lads .Its getting tedious.

    I support IRELAND at these games, have no interest in fake news and conspiracy theories.

    M'kay!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,753 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    Ah, yeah but you don't experiment in the 6N or world cup, or against new Zealand or South Africa or Australia or Argentina. Then experiment agaisnt the likes of the second tier teams (soon to include Wales according to the rankings?) which happens once or twice a year.

    I think there is a certain amount of experimentation or development going on with Sam at the moment. I think it’s pretty low risk because both he and Crowley are good and there's not much in it at the moment.

    They know how good Crowley is and I think they're giving Sam some games to find out exactly how good he is at international level.

    Your last paragraph suggests experimentation.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,944 ✭✭✭Brief_Lives




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 1,901 ✭✭✭Ben Bailey


    (soon to include Wales according to the rankings?) 

    Wales, like all the other 'Six Nations' are locked in as a 'Tier 1' side, no matter how many they lose.

    Tier one consists of the European teams who play in the Six Nations (England, Scotland, Wales, Ireland, France and Italy), and the four who compete in the southern hemisphere's Rugby Championship (Australia, New Zealand, South Africa and Argentina).



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,753 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    I take your word for it. I was using the term loosely. Meaning they can probably experiment a bit against Wales.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 1,901 ✭✭✭Ben Bailey


    Yeah, the selection against Wales might differ, although playing your best team, when available, seems to be the way we roll.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,753 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    So when do they ever really experiment or develop players? They either don't to it or they do limited experiments and development in some of the big games. I think they're experimenting by giving Prendergast development opportunities in these last few games.

    I said this in the first post you quoted. No point repeating



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 497 ✭✭Cateym


    The analysis was great.....until it stopped as soon as Crowley came on. Is there anyone unbiased who can analyse BOTH??



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,076 ✭✭✭crusd


    Excellent points. Well thought out and expertly elucidated.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,830 ✭✭✭CMOTDibbler


    Great bit of work, well done. I'll just pick you up on one thing which I've covered elsewhere on the 13th minute analysis. He didn't 'get' the ball, it squirted out of the ruck and ended up on the floor in front and to the right of him. By the time he'd regathered it, it was at best a 50/50 chance. But on advantage, he probably should have gone for it.

    On the missed conversion of JGPs try, I saw someone (maybe on Against the Head?) mention that because of the reduced time to take conversions, players should ensure that the ball gets to the 10 as quickly as possible. JGP threw it away after scoring, so this may have cut down the available time. When he took the kick he only had 4 seconds left. Looked like he rushed it.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,076 ✭✭✭crusd


    France do it all the time. Was Romain Ntamack the best 10 in France 6 years ago when he was thrown in at 19? No. He was selected because of what he could become and to help accelerate his progession. We in Ireland lost a generation of 10's after Sexton because they never got a chance until they were 25.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 1,901 ✭✭✭Ben Bailey


    Fair point on the conversion 'clock'. Teams & not just kickers need to tune into this. Particularly as kickers need time to prepare and can't be unaware of a Ref beside them in a one way conversation with a TMO confirming the legality, or otherwise, of the try just scored. Imo, conversion clock should only start running once Ref has checked score & said 'Try good, Kicker can go' (or similar).



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,753 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    Someone already did Crowley's touches a couple of pages back.

    Do you want them to duplicate the work? You know they're not being paid, right?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 27,322 ✭✭✭✭phog


    In fairness, he had already done Crowley's in one of the Ireland or match threads.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 1,901 ✭✭✭Ben Bailey


    As @Jump_In_Jack posted in the Connacht thread, Bolton has a certain resemblance to 'Dougie' Van der Merwe and may be roleplaying him in training for the Murrayfield game.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 27,322 ✭✭✭✭phog


    If the conversion was rushed then that's on Ireland, it's a home game, the ball boys need to be told to have a ball ready for the kicker.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,811 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    We in Ireland lost a generation of 10's after Sexton because they never got a chance until they were 25.

    Who is this lost generation??

    Paddy Jackson - test debut aged 21

    Joey Carbery - 20

    Jack Crowley - 21

    Sam Prendergast- 21

    Ross Byrne and Ian Madigan were a bit older but I’m pretty sure earlier caps wouldn’t have made them international level



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,830 ✭✭✭CMOTDibbler


    The problem with that occurred just before this when Kelleher's try was disallowed. The ref was fine with it and was standing next to Prendergast who had the ball teed up when he told him not to take it as the TMO had just notified him of Beirne's transgression. The ref often awards a try without reference to the TMO and the TMO (off their own bat) finds something.

    If there's going to be a TMO review after every try and before the conversion is kicked, that's going to slow things down a lot.

    Clearly the TMO was going through the footage and saw it and then notified the ref. So the clock would have been started anyway. And that then causes a problem with the clock if it has to be stopped and restarted (if the try stands after TMO intervention). The kicker may have very little time to go through their routine again.

    My view is that once the shot clock is started, it shouldn't be stopped and the kicker allowed to take the kick even if there are issues with the try. They can disallow afterwards.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 1,901 ✭✭✭Ben Bailey


    Yep, simplest option is to get on with it and if the TMO afterwards intervenes then fine. A kicker, having begun their routine shouldn't have to worry that they are going to be 'held' by the Ref /TMO. If the purpose of the decrease in allowed time is to move things along then your suggestion makes most sense.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,076 ✭✭✭crusd


    A chance is not an occasional test against Tonga, or 20 minutes against Italy. Again and again we have had a litany of players who never got a opportunity to test themselves against the best.

    So when Sexton was injured in the 2015 world cup, Ian Madigan had a total of zero starts against a top tier country even though he was already 26. And in 2023 when Sexton could barely walk in the final 10 minutes, there was no 10 available with the exposure to be trusted to come on for the last 20. I cannot think of a 10 under the age of 24 who got a start against one of the top teams when the incumbent was available since O'Gara got into the team, until Prendergast in the Autumn.

    To go into another WC in that position would be criminal. So give both of our best 10's game time against the top teams. Crowley is currently the better player. Who know who it will be in 2 years.



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