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BusConnects Dublin - Bus Network Changes Discussion

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Comments

  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 23,563 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    This has been a major failing of BusConnects and the way it is being rolled out and how long it is taking.

    It seems the NTA have gotten tunnel vision and are only focusing on each new BusConnects corridor in turn, while ignoring the rest of the network and how it actually integrates with the BusConnects routes.

    The 24 hour routes is an example of this, we had started rolling out 24 hour routes, the likes of the 41, 39a, etc. but it seems that rollout was put on hold so they would be done as part of Busconnects, but because BusConnects is taking years to rollout, routes that should have been made 24/7 years ago are taking far too long to get there.

    Look at the 3km short fare, it only applies to BusConnects routes, how is that fair to people on routes that haven't been BusConnected yet and why did they stupidly shutdown all the fare calculators so no one can figure out if they sould be getting the short fare or not.

    Look at how old routes skip newly installed BusConnects stops, completely negating the whole Connected part of BusConnects! Like the 16 and 14 skipping N4 stops, it makes non sense at all.

    I think the vision of BusConnects is excellent and will be worth it once done, but boy is the implementation a **** show!

    I get the strong smell of civil service bureaucracy from the implementation.

    Had I to do it over again, I'd still aim for the BusConnects network, but see it as a more long term plan, I wouldn't have made 24/7 route, short fares, etc. contingent on it. I'd have rolled out the short fare (and fare calculators) to all routes from day one, similar to the 90 minute fare, I would have continued to rollout some 24/7 routes ahead of the BusConnectation of a route, etc.

    I think the day one focus should have been on the orbital routes, 24/7 routes, and fares. as they have the biggest impact, the radial interlined BusConenct routes are nice, but not such a big deal and not worth delaying everything else for IMO.



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 23,563 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    Well the idea of the penalty, is that it puts pressure on the companies to fix their problems and do better going forward, which benefits people long term by just not having bad service.

    If there were no penalties, then nothing stopping the companies shrugging their shoulders and say what you going to do about it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 9,106 ✭✭✭dublinman1990


    The cancellations on the L26, S6 & S8 have appeared to continue on the TFI app this morning.

    At the moment; I had seen one cancellation in place for the L26 to Blackrock.

    There's two S6's cancelled in a row going to Blackrock & one for Tallaght. It will be a 40 minute wait for the next ones going to Blackrock and a wait of 30 minutes for the S6 to Tallaght.

    And there are 3 cancellations for the S8 made up of one for Dun Laoghaire & two for Citywest. It will be roughly another 40 minute wait for the next S8 to Citywest when looking at my nearest stops going through Newtownpark Avenue in Blackrock.

    I hadn't seen any cancellations yet for the S4, L27 & 114 today. They appear to be running to schedule.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,279 ✭✭✭Daith


    I get that, but just feels like it's not really make much of a difference. If some of those fines translated into say having free transport on Dublin Bus or GAI, I think it might be more effective!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,202 ✭✭✭✭cgcsb


    No thanks, every bus is rammed already. We don't need to invite people who would normally walk or cycle onto the bus also.

    we need a comprehensive luas, DART and Metro network covering all the main radial routes. Double decker buses are cute and all but they're more of a Galway transport solution, there's no way we can continue to run our public transport system based almost solely on buses in Dublin. After BusConnects cbcs are finished there'll be little potential to improve the bus service any further.



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  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 23,563 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    The fares come out of the NTA's budget, not out of DB/GAI's. So you would basically be awarding DB/GAI for not operating the service! They would basically get paid for a service that didn't run, while NTA lose money.

    I suspect most people would prefer that the service just ran, then a free bus that might not turn up anyway.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 19,039 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    The Bray CBC has been approved by ABP.

    Only Kimmage to go now.

    https://www.pleanala.ie/en-ie/case/317742



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,279 ✭✭✭Daith


    Fair enough, I just don't think the fine are doing the trick really.



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 23,563 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    In fairness I do think do are working, DB was having serious problems last year, got big fines and now seem to have greatly improved. GAI now seem to be having issues, but they sound like they are working hard to fix those issues (hiring extra mechanics), so hopefully will be sorted soon.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 15,772 Mod ✭✭✭✭dfx-


    This where we are stuck. Nobody knows what the contract binds them to or what they said they could do in their bid so how can you expect ramifications?

    The NTA want at least another operator than DB or clearly a better bid than DB offered so they can't and don't want to force them out or take serious action. DB wouldn't be able to take on their cache of routes now anyway so it could be argued that GAI can just carry on as they are.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,507 ✭✭✭✭stephenjmcd


    I could just be missing it on that page but anywhere to see what the conditions are ?



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 23,563 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    Yes and there is another element to this issue. DB are much larger then GAI, almost x10. DB have far more routes, buses, drivers, mechanics and depots. This means they can handle shortages that crop up a lot more easily then GAI.

    For example, if DB has a shortage of drivers, you can spread the cancellations across far more routes, including high frequency routes, so it isn't as obvious to the public then GAI having to make cancellations on a smaller number of largely orbital routes.

    Having issues, with broken down buses due to shortage of mechanics, DB has more older backup buses in the depot that they can put out to cover for the broken down ones.

    DB has been experiencing the same driver and mechanic shortages as GAI and pretty much every bus company. It is just DB's large size makes it somewhat easier to cover over the cracks.

    Ironically the solution would actually be to make GAI bigger, give them more routes, have them expand their fleet, depots, staff, etc. They too would have better scale to deal with such issues!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,693 ✭✭✭mikeybhoy


    Go-Ahead have over 200 buses based in Ballymount now which would make it likely larger than some of the bigger DB garages like Donnybrook or Harristown. Their small fleet seemed to give problems at beginning for example Streetlites were ending up on busy routes like the 18, 76 and 75 but now they their fleet size isn't giving them so many issues.

    The fact of the matter is DB are paying their drivers and I'm guessing mechanics more money than GAI and providing better working conditions this is why Go-Ahead are struggling more than DB. Loads of drivers in Go-Ahead have left mostly to go to DB. Sure I've even seen plenty of ex GAI drivers now working for DB on the routes I use.



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 23,563 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    And Dublin Bus have 1,137 vehicles (according to BusTimes.org) but they have even more in storage.

    Also GAI's fleet includes commuter coaches for it's more BE type services. Their city Double Decker fleet is just 149 vehicles, with another 40 single deckers, but they are of limited use in being able to cover for DD break downs.

    And yes, a nice big depot, which certainly comes with advantages, but also just one, having multiple depots all over the city gives you flexibility to respond to issues, breakdowns and cancellations that crop up around the city.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,783 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Only two days ago I was on a particularly ratty/odorous AX that had been pulled out of a depot to replace something that had broken down (probably the PA I saw with hazards on) - bustimes showed it was doing a handful of runs at most 4 days a week in recent months.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,202 ✭✭✭✭cgcsb


    I'm finding that the N2 is steadily getting busier, I wonder is this due to cancellations or are people only gradually adjusting their commute to take advantage of more orbital routes



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 23,563 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    Yes, I've noticed the same, I think it is a genuine increase in the numbers, rather then cancellations, which seem to be far less then what others are reporting on other routes.

    I saw much the same pattern when the N4 was introduced. I think it takes about a year for a route to really settle in and meet it's potential, specially these orbital routes, which are totally new, versus say a relatively minor change to a radial route.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,232 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Theres a few other issues too
    lack of a real replacement for the 84/144 route so no regular luas connection, X2 being diverted to cherrywood, Ridiculous placements of terminus in Bray and Delgany

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 9,106 ✭✭✭dublinman1990


    There is quite a long article here from Independent.ie about the recent cancellations affecting the S4 route.

    Labour & Independents4Change representatives have made some noteworthy submissions on the route.

    Labour reps, in particular, want the traffic lights junction in Rathgar Village to be changed as a way of improving the reliability of the route.

    Do you think Labour have made a good point about the junction in Rathgar Village being a big obstacle along the route?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 152 ✭✭AX636


    You should stand outside Summerhill between 9 and 11 there's no spare bus for the driver's that are meant to taking a bus from the depot, Summerhill is short of buses at the minute and doesn't help they still having problems with the EW'S.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,693 ✭✭✭mikeybhoy


    Surely the L3 would've been better being run as a circular route



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 259 ✭✭BusGuy




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,232 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 287 ✭✭markest


    The L1/L2 was also originally planned as a circular route. Both on same route but in opposite directions.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,171 ✭✭✭caviardreams


    Lawless announces new X service to serve UCD and heuston from March

    https://www.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1030999422183288&id=100058197186721&rdid=faCCxb7HZ2RU2nZP#



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,777 ✭✭✭john boye


    I seem to remember one of the versions of Bus Connects had a peak hour service from UCD to Heuston? I'm not sure if it was on the map but it was mentioned as a footnote in the text.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 15,882 ✭✭✭✭loyatemu


    The L3 is causing traffic problems in Delgany as there's nowhere really for it to wait between runs and it's blocking a narrow road (that is due to be widened but that's probably a year or more away).

    Ideally it would continue into Delgany village and do a loop around into Delgany wood Avenue, but I suspect the bus wouldn't be able to make the left turn in the village.

    Alternative would be to go down Delgany Wood Avenue and back to Glenbrook so it starts and ends from the same place.

    Put your money where yer mouth is... Subscribe and Save Boards!

    https://subscriptions.boards.ie/



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 9,106 ✭✭✭dublinman1990


    That's great news for the students attending UCD from Heuston.

    Will Donnybrook take up this new ''X'' Service from March?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,514 ✭✭✭StreetLight


    I don't get it. There are already multiple X routes linking Heuston and UCD. What's so special about this one?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 259 ✭✭BusGuy


    Good news out of the E-spine. Looking at BusTimes, DB finally decided to allocate AX's on the weekend. Linking back to my post earlier on the thread, this will indeed increase frequency, across most Bus Connects operated routes.



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