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Energy infrastructure

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 15,602 ✭✭✭✭josip


    Are you sure it was for 10am to noon? Maybe it was for 10pm to midnight?

    image.png


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,122 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    65% renewables is quiet high, 75% is the maximum we can currently have on the grid. It is also possible that they are currently curtailing some renewables (means turn off) because supply is outstripping demand, thus the encouragement to you to use more electricity.

    It is a little odd that Moyle is exporting while Greenlink is importing, if I was too guess their is currently an imbalance in the British grid between Scotland and England. Moyle is connected to Scotland, while Greenlink is connected to Wales, so each are helping to balance the different areas. While GB has one grid, Scotland and England aren't as well connected as they could and should be.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,260 ✭✭✭Exiled Rebel




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,127 ✭✭✭Markcheese


    This could be interesting in the future , they're testing a 6kw model so not huge by modern standards - but far from a toy either ,

    Should be less "visually intrusive "far less noise ,and less need for huge foundations,

    Downsides could be less efficient , and if it's much lower to the ground less abilities to capture the wind , no idea how it's likely to affect turbulence ( better -worse - same) for wild life , but less likely for the blades to directly impact bird life , which could be a boon for offshore or floating platforms ,

    But if it's only going for testing now I can't see it being used in mainstream operations in much less than a decade -

    https://interestingengineering.com/energy/australia-to-test-6kw-vertical-wind-turbine

    Slava ukraini 🇺🇦



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,084 ✭✭✭Jakey Rolling


    The vagaries of the energy market are a mystery to me, but why we would curtaill wind output instead of exporting to UK/France with our interconnectors doesn't bode well for when we have 20+GW of wind installed.

    It's not like the UK doesn't need the power - they are currently importing 1.3GW from Norway, 0.7GW from France (and exporting 1GW to Belgium). Presumably these decisons are largely made on cost?

    100412.2526@compuserve.com



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  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,122 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    Yes, it is all driven by cost. Say if the wind is also blowing strong in parts of the UK and mainland Europe, then they may also have excess generation and thus not need our wind, thus it has to be curtailed.

    Typically the wholesale cost of electricity is cheaper in mainland Europe then the UK and in turn the UK is cheaper then Ireland. So you can end up with a situation where the UK is importing from mainland Europe and then UK turn around and sell to us.

    Obviously an over simplification, there are grid balancing factors that come into play too.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 802 ✭✭✭Scarab80


    Greenlink is still being tested, if you look at the flows since it started they are all during normal business hours - i think i remember a date of 26th January for it to be properly operational.

    The majority of wind curtailments are actually local constraints, where our grid is unable to transfer power generated by wind farms around the island. So power generated from a wind farm in Mayo may be unable to reach the interconnectors in the east.

    image.png image.png


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,084 ✭✭✭Jakey Rolling


    Thanks @Scarab80 , that explains a lot. I'm just inside the West constraint group. Presumably the planned upgrades to the grid will improve the flow of excess renewable generation to where it is most needed.

    100412.2526@compuserve.com



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 15,602 ✭✭✭✭josip


    Thankfully most of the solar is in unconstrained areas 😀 and it appears to me that yesterday 1.5 - 2% of our demand was met by solar. Admittedly yesterday (and today) were ideal days for solar, but it's the middle of January. 1.5 - 2% may not sound like a lot, but there's probably as much again being produced on domestic rooftops and in smaller scale windfarms, reducing our demand accordingly.

    image.png

    https://bsky.app/profile/greencollective.io



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,127 ✭✭✭Markcheese


    Not that significant a planning decision, but it's interesting how the media talks about solar farms ,

    48 hectares is referred to as " vast "

    And the residents are concerned that the area will be turned into " an industrial electrical hub "

    https://www.leinsterexpress.ie/news/ecolive/1707853/decision-made-on-laois-rural-community-s-appeal-against-solar-farm.html

    Slava ukraini 🇺🇦



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,872 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    Are there any solar farms near the west coast?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 3,296 ✭✭✭KrisW1001


    Post edited by KrisW1001 on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 15,602 ✭✭✭✭josip


    Good question, I'd be surprised if there were. The highest sunshine locations don't stretch as far inland on the west coast as the other coasts.

    Untitled Image

    The topography is also more undulating in the west than the east and south; most of the solar farms I've seen have been in fairly flat areas where I'd imagine groundwork is easier.

    I'd also wonder if substations are sparser on the west coast compared to others which would further limit the number of feasible sites.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,083 ✭✭✭onrail


    Talking of feasible sites. What would be determined the longest feasible distance from a substation site or HV line to establish any sort of viable solar farm or other generation site? Sitting here on the southeast coast with an abundance of sunshine, but 15 km (as the crow flies) from the nearest substation or HV line.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,259 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    Heat pumps can be disconnected from the network remotely. If you take a "heat pump tariff" here in Germany, you must allow a radio receiver to be installed that can cut your heatpump out if the network is under extreme stress. This rarely actually happens but when it does the vast majority of heat pump owners don't even notice because it's usually for a short period of a couple of hours. The (old) technology exists to manage heat pumps. EVs can be charged when electricity is most abundant. Most people charge at night and don't need a full charge to go to work the following day, so this can also be managed with smart metering. These things are entirely manageable.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,259 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    In fact a modern build with concrete screed under floor heating coupled with a heat pump IS a battery. The floor is a massive heat store. Even in a small house you have tens of tonnes of concrete mass storing the heat energy. You don't even need a battery because you effectively already have one, just one that stores the heat itself. Many people with PV on the roof actually run their heat pump at full tilt during the afternoon to store the sun's energy in the floor and then switch it off in the evening until the sun comes up the following morning.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,964 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    https://bmrs.elexon.co.uk/remit/details/GRNLNK1719243085-ELXP-RMT-00000001?messageId=807402

    Greenlink appears fully operational now.

    As of this minute, Ireland's import capacity of 1485MW appears to be fully utilised with Moyle/EWIC/Greenlink all importing at capacity.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 281 ✭✭specialbyte


    I was thinking it must have happened. Looking at the eirgrid dashboard last night it was interesting to see that Greenlink was running outside of standard working hours when the vast majority of the commissioning tests were happening. Great to see this vital infrastructure online. Looking forward to Celtic interconnector following in 2026. Hopefully we'll see more interconnector proposals between Ireland and Britain in the near future. It looked like there were more private companies (like Greenlink) angling for regulatory approval from ComReg in Ireland and Ofcom in the UK.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 15,602 ✭✭✭✭josip


    I think 1212MW yesterday is a new record for export?

    image.png


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,599 ✭✭✭gjim


    I realize it's a relatively short period - about 4 hours? - but still very impressive. If anyone told me 10 years ago Ireland would be exporting electricity at the GW scale, I would have laughed. With the amount of solar coming online and off-shore wind capacity pending, I'm guessing it's going to become a more common occurence.



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  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 98,124 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 15,602 ✭✭✭✭josip


    Will be interesting to see if we can achieve that for export. Even if we have the renewable capacity to generate such a surplus, will our grid be able to distribute the surplus evenly to the 3 interconnectors and will the UK grid want that surplus at that time? Eg. if a weather system affected the northern part of the island and we had a surplus, there would probably be a surplus in Scotland at the same time and they wouldn't be interested in importing over Moyle.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 15,602 ✭✭✭✭josip


    2 questions for today.

    Why was Moneypoint still burning coal in the last 24 hours when we could have burned more gas or imported instead? There was enough thermal power online for grid inertia and our imports were never maxed out over the previous 24 hours.

    image.png image.png

    Why are the UK simultaneously importing and exporting to France this morning?

    image.png


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 3,296 ✭✭✭KrisW1001


    Question 1: A logging error, a test, or maybe they were clearing stocks of coal?

    Question 2: the UK has multiple separate interconnects with France, they don’t all “land” in the same part of the UK grid (or the French). It may be that the cost of transmitting the exported energy to another part of the UK grid by AC was higher than the cost of importing that energy from France. (Or that works are being carried out on the UK's transmission network so that transfers need to “go through France” temporarily)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 15,602 ✭✭✭✭josip


    I'm thinking clearing stocks of coal also. They've been consistently burning coal since the start of the year. I suppose if they don't burn it, someone else will. But it reminds me of people who replace blown lightbulbs with incandescents because they've already bought them even though it would be more cost effective for them to buy a new LED.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 3,296 ✭✭✭KrisW1001


    They may be clearing the on-site coal-storage area for other uses, and in that case, burning the coal is probably the lowest-carbon option. Power stations have the most efficient coal-fired burners simply because of their scale. Plus, if someone else were to burn that coal, first you’d have to get it to them, and that involves a lot of transportation emissions.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 802 ✭✭✭Scarab80


    1. Coal power plants don't ramp up and down very well, they are designed for steady power supply. Wind is dropping to 1GW tomorrow at peak, so it is probably more efficient to keep the plant delivering power through to that period when it will be needed.
    2. National grids are not homogeneous entities where power can be shared around the grid without restriction. It was probably a situation where certain locations on the French or British side had power requirements or excess generation and the most efficient or cost effective way to move the power to where it was needed was through the interconnectors.


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 98,124 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    Grid constraints include - Requirement for a minimum output from the generators in an area to support the voltage
    or to avoid overloads

    https://www.sem-o.com/sites/semo/files/2025-02/Wk07_2025_Weekly_Operational_Constraints_Update.pdf

    Page 16 states that when wind is less than 1,000 MW There must be at least one unit of ( MP1, MP2, MP3, MP5, TYC ) on load at all times; required to support the 400kV network

    Note : Moneypoint units 2 and 5 cannot be run simultaneously due to station arrangement

    Not sure if this applies to Moneypoint but The Ramping Margin Constraints maintain a level of dispatchable generation and demand to mitigate renewable forecast error. Ramping Margin 8 (RM8) is delivered in 8 hours and maintained for 8 hours

    The 75% limit on Non-Synchronous Generation means it's possible to have a situation where each MW of coal would allow an extra 3MW of wind to be used or exported.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 15,602 ✭✭✭✭josip


    New record of 1318MW last night for export

    Edit: 1395 this morning

    Post edited by josip on


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  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,964 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    https://www.businesspost.ie/article/government-moves-towards-commercial-lng-facility-in-departure-from-green-policy/



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